|
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,214
Members1,325
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
9 registered members (dedication, daylily, TheophilusOne, Daryl, Karen Y, 4 invisible),
2,500
guests, and 6
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Tom]
#129158
11/25/10 01:27 AM
11/25/10 01:27 AM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Why, then, didn't God implement it instead of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross?
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129172
11/26/10 05:19 PM
11/26/10 05:19 PM
|
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
|
|
Why, then, didn't God implement it instead of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross? As explained in the following quote, the cross was necessary for man: (M)an was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan’s sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God’s love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. {DA 761.5} This is going over two pages in my browser, so in case it is in your too, I'll summarize the last couple of posts. 1.You spoke of what God would have done had A&E not fallen, saying you and I didn't think Christ would have died in this case, and you asked me what God would have done in this case. 2.I responded I don't know, but I thought it would work for all beings. 3.You asked why God didn't implement this. 4.I said because man needed it. The thing to point out here, lest it appear I'm saying something different, is that in the first question, 1) above, you asked supposing A&E hadn't fallen. However, question 3) is in the context of A&E having fallen, so the response is different. The fall of man necessitated the cross.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Tom]
#129219
11/28/10 04:07 PM
11/28/10 04:07 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
M: I’m still interested in why you think Jesus’ death would not have been necessary had A&E succeeded in Eden, and why you think it would have rendered them eternally secure. Also, what do you think Jesus would have done to render the unfallen FMAs eternally secure?
T: I answered this. I said I think God would have devised some other way to demonstrate His love, and reveal the principles of His government, as well as that of the enemy, but I don't know how He would have done this.
M: I'm glad that we can agree Jesus' death would have been unnecessary had A&E succeeded in Eden, and that God would have rendered sinless beings eternally secure in some other way. Do you think that "other way" would have worked to render A&E eternally secure had they failed? If not, why not? And, would it have worked for sinless beings for the same reasons, that is, would it have rendered them eternally secure if A&E had failed? If not, why not?
T: I think whatever God would have had in mind would have worked for all beings.
M: Why, then, didn't God implement it instead of Jesus suffering and dying on the cross?
T: The fall of man necessitated the cross. Yes, I agree the death of Jesus was necessary to redeem penitent sinners. However, why don't you think the "other way" you mentioned would have rendered humans and angels eternally secure? Why would it have rendered them eternally secure had A&E succeeded but not if they had failed? Also, why did Jesus wait 4,000 years to die on the cross? Did it disadvantage those who lived and died before the incarnation and death of Jesus?
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129238
11/30/10 05:27 AM
11/30/10 05:27 AM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
This seems a good example of where the legacy of Christs death has gone wrong. http://www.atoday.com/files/uploads/Leprosy_Adventist_Style_7.jpg
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: vastergotland]
#129246
11/30/10 03:02 PM
11/30/10 03:02 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Thomas, what's the connection between homophobes and Jesus' death? It's sad that some people treat gays like lepers. It's also sad that some gays expect Jesus to condone their sexual practices as right and normal. Being gay and acting gay are two different realities. Everyone must resist inborn sinful propensities. Gays are no different. My nephew is struggling to stay alive on life support because he shot up heroine every day for three years. His excuse is, "I can't help it. It's just the way I am. I was born this way."
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129255
11/30/10 04:59 PM
11/30/10 04:59 PM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
Mike, the connection is John chapte 17.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: vastergotland]
#129271
12/01/10 03:44 PM
12/01/10 03:44 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Please explain your thought. Thank you.
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129292
12/02/10 07:17 AM
12/02/10 07:17 AM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
The man in the pulpit is obviously a brother in Christ. As are the people who are running away.
Jesus prayed that the Church would be united. The church is doing a terrible job with this. Churches are divided on all levels.
The local congregation is divided, sometimes based on rumors such as in the cartoon. Congregations within denominations are divided, "surely God will smithe that liberal/conservative SDA church at the other side of town". Denominations are divided, "The ... church is the devils servant and all our members must take care not to have anything to do with them".
(in the SDA church, this is usually the RC and the main protestant churches, in some other denomination it is perhaps the SDA who is the leper denomination)
In short,
John 13:35
"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
People do not know neither Christ nor His disciples because we hate or fear one another.
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: vastergotland]
#129294
12/02/10 03:15 PM
12/02/10 03:15 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
Thomas, I agree there is way too much unjustified disunity within and between churches. However, how do you implement Paul's counsel in the following passages:
1 Corinthians
5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
2 Thessalonians
3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
3:15 Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
|
|
|
Re: What Was Secured by the Death of Christ.
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129295
12/02/10 03:16 PM
12/02/10 03:16 PM
|
OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
|
|
PS - Also, please show how this ties in with the topic of this thread?
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
