HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Christa Maya, Ike, Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030
1327 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,247
Posts196,395
Members1,327
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 11
Rick H 7
Daryl 5
January
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Rick H
Rick H
Florida, USA
Posts: 3,278
Joined: January 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
9 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, ProdigalOne, Daryl, ByronS, TheophilusOne, daylily, 2 invisible), 1,926 guests, and 33 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Lesson #9 - Rizpah: The Influence of Faithfulness [Re: Daryl] #129168
11/26/10 05:10 AM
11/26/10 05:10 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,779
Canada
Maybe a little of both.

While God did not chastize them for having many wives, he also didn't stop the problems that came with that arrangement. Sin more often than not, punishes itself.

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away'

Solomon had to do A LOT of repenting because his heart was "turned away" due to his many wives.

He had 700 official wives and 300 concubines (and I wonder if those numbers are "rounded" of to the nearest 100)

Of Solomon the Inspired Record says, "His wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God." 1 Kings 11:4
" Solomon's course brought its sure penalty. His separation from God through communication with idolaters was his ruin. As he cast off his allegiance to God, he lost the mastery of himself. His moral efficiency was gone. His fine sensibilities became blunted, his conscience seared....Solomon turned to find satisfaction in the pleasures of sense"

And David -- had he been committed to being faithful to one wife instead of taking seven wives and at least ten concubines, would he have so readily fallen with Bathsheba? And then married her as his eighth wife.

"The bitter result of marrying many wives was sorely felt throughout all the life of David. {PP 668.1}

How many wives did Saul have?

Saul married Ahinoam, daughter of Ahimaaz. They had four sons and two daughters. The sons were Jonathan, Abinadab, Malchishua and Ish-bosheth. Their daughters were named Merab and Michal.

Saul also had one concubine named Rizpah, daughter of Aiah, who bore him two sons, Armoni and Mephibosheth

Reply Quote
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson #9 - Rizpah: The Influence of Faithfulness [Re: dedication] #129186
11/27/10 09:28 AM
11/27/10 09:28 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
A comment by Jonathan Gallangher:

Quote:
So what are we supposed to learn here? That God is fussy over burials? That he condones blood feuds? That he rewards David for handing over Saul’s sons to be executed? Or is it that God relates to people where they are, and is trying by small increments to lead them to a better understanding of himself. When you read stories like this, it’s no surprise that Jesus had to come to show what God is really like!

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #9 - Rizpah: The Influence of Faithfulness [Re: Rosangela] #129187
11/27/10 09:32 AM
11/27/10 09:32 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Two points mentioned in the lesson comment in Spectrum:

1) To David the goal is to alleviate the land of Israel from the famine. But instead of asking Yahweh how He wants that done, he asks the Gibeonites what they want.

2) The question that the story raises is obvious: if the death of Saul’s sons and grandsons was required for expiation of his guilt and Yahweh was awaiting their death to end the draught, why did the rains not come immediately?

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #9 - Rizpah: The Influence of Faithfulness [Re: Rosangela] #129233
11/30/10 02:14 AM
11/30/10 02:14 AM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,779
Canada
I think the problem comes from taking the story out of its context in scripture.

When one reads the continuous story of David in 2 Sam. we see that there were considerable problems between the "house of Saul" and the "house of David".

God had said -- "David is My choice as king -- his throne is to last forever (and yes, Christ is in the line of David)(See 2 Sam. 7)

Saul's descendents said, "It's not fair, we want the kingdom restored to the "house of Saul".

You will see this in the stories preceding this account.

ABSALOM REBELLS DAVID IS FLEEING

Ahh --- David is now weak! What happens.

We see Ziba (servant of Jonathan's son Mephibosheth) come to help David. David asks him, "Where is your master, Methibosheth's son?"
NOTE THE ANSWER.
"he abideth at Jerusalem: for he said, To day shall the house of Israel restore me the kingdom of my father. 16:3

David disinherits Mephibosheth's Son Mica, and gives all the property to Ziba.

NOTE AS WELL,
While David is fleeing,Shimei, of the house of Saul is running along on the other side cursing, and throwing stones at them, shouting things like "The LORD hath returned upon thee all the blood of the house of Saul, in whose stead thou hast reigned;" 16:8

Of course when David is back in power Shimei comes pledding for forgiveness knowing full well his behavior could result in his death.

NOTE AGAIN:
As David returns to Jerusalem another rebellion breaks out.
"Sheba, the son of Bichri, a Benjamite: blew a trumpet, and said, We have no part in David, neither have we inheritance in the son of Jesse" 20:1

David figured Sheba would do more harm than Absolom. But David's men managed to quell the rebellion -- with the help of a wise woman.

BUT NOTE:
This story of Ripzah comes AFTER all these rebellions against David's throne.
The house of Saul was NOT willing to take God's choice as final, they wanted the kingdom back.

Micah, Saul's daughter, and one of David's wives, reveals a spirit of contempt and bitterness towards David. Was it only during the "ark" incident? Or was that incident a picture into her heart?
Scripture says the five grandsons that were hanged were brought up by Micah. Some think this is a mistake because Merub, Micah's sister was married to Ariel. However, Merub may well have died, and Mical raised up those five boys. Did she also help instill a spirit of rebellion in those five boys.

LASTLY NOTE:

After the stories of the rebellions, followed by the incident of Rizpah, and a few more battles, David sings a song.

"22:1 And David spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day [that] the LORD had delivered him out of the hand of all his enemies, and out of the hand of Saul:
22:40 For thou hast girded me with strength to battle: them that rose up against me hast thou subdued under me. "



So my conclusion --
These young men didn't just die for Saul's sins,
they died for their own. Saul's descendents were not content to accept God's choice of king. They were a threat to David's throne and (judging from what happened when David was fleeing Absalom) were simply waiting for a point when David was weak or dying to stage a revolt.

Saul's killing of the Gibeonites and breaking the oath, was just another reason why the kingdom would not pass on to Saul's descendants.

Why did God wait 30 some years before rectifying this situation with the Gibeonites? Probably because Saul's sons and grandsons were given time to reveal their own characters.

God worked it out that they would no longer be a threat to the throne.

Why didn't it rain right away?
Because there was more that needed to be done. The burial and respect paid to the deceased finally brought peace between the house of Saul and the house of David.

Reply Quote
Re: Lesson #9 - Rizpah: The Influence of Faithfulness [Re: dedication] #129240
11/30/10 12:59 PM
11/30/10 12:59 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
This story of Ripzah comes AFTER all these rebellions against David's throne.

But, as the lesson pointed out, "most Bible commentators agree that 2 Samuel 21–24 do not unfold sequentially after 2 Samuel 20 but rather they provide further information that does not fit into the general storyline of David’s life."

Quote:
So my conclusion --
These young men didn't just die for Saul's sins,
they died for their own. Saul's descendents were not content to accept God's choice of king. They were a threat to David's throne and (judging from what happened when David was fleeing Absalom) were simply waiting for a point when David was weak or dying to stage a revolt.

Is the non-acceptance of the authority of a king a sin punishable with death?
The fact is, God didn't require the life of anyone - the gibeonites did. And the death of the seven men didn't bring the rain - the reconciliation of the nation did.

Reply Quote
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets
by dedication. 01/27/25 05:55 PM
The Apocalypse falls on Los Angeles
by ProdigalOne. 01/27/25 04:23 AM
Trump's Threats on Canada
by ProdigalOne. 01/27/25 04:11 AM
1st Quarter 2025 God's Love and Justice
by dedication. 01/25/25 01:21 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 01/24/25 11:22 AM
Is it Over? Are we there?
by dedication. 01/24/25 12:29 AM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 01/23/25 05:44 PM
The Prophecy of Ezekiel 9.
by dedication. 01/22/25 04:20 PM
Six Day Work Week
by dedication. 01/14/25 05:29 PM
Project 2025
by dedication. 01/13/25 06:00 PM
Sabbath Keeping Bees in Brazil?
by kland. 01/10/25 01:55 PM
The King of the North
by dedication. 01/09/25 12:57 PM
The Loud Cry to Come Out of Babylon
by Rick H. 01/03/25 09:53 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by ProdigalOne. 01/27/25 04:15 AM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by ProdigalOne. 01/26/25 03:41 AM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by kland. 01/13/25 01:28 PM
1888-Ellen White and the Church Leaders
by dedication. 01/09/25 08:49 PM
Private Schools
by dedication. 01/01/25 10:42 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by dedication. 12/29/24 03:45 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1