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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #129253
11/30/10 05:48 PM
11/30/10 05:48 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Rosangela, Ellen White wrote the following regarding character:

Quote:
If the thoughts are wrong the feelings will be wrong, and the thoughts and feelings combined make up the moral character. (5T 310)

The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts. (SC 57)

Any one act, either good or evil, does not form the character; but thoughts and feelings indulged prepare the way for acts and deeds of the same kind. (CG 199)

It is not through one act that the character is formed, but by a repetition of acts that habits are established and character confirmed. (ST 4-30-1894)

Character does not come by chance. It is not determined by one outburst of temper, one step in the wrong direction. It is the repetition of the act that causes it to become habit, and molds the character either for good or for evil. (CG 164)

A well-balanced character is formed by single acts well performed. One defect, cultivated instead of being overcome, makes the man imperfect, and closes against him the gate of the Holy City. (FLB 44)

Mental ability and genius are not character, for these are often possessed by those who have the very opposite of a good character. Reputation is not character. True character is a quality of the soul, revealing itself in the conduct. (CG 161)

Remember that they have inherited their parents' dispositions. You have now to meet in your children your own defects of character. {DG 207.3}

Character cannot be bought; it must be formed by stern efforts to resist temptation. The formation of a right character is the work of a lifetime, and is the outgrowth of prayerful meditation united with a grand purpose. The excellence of character that you possess must be the result of your own effort. {FE 87.2}

A noble, all-round character is not inherited. {COL 331.1}

But character is not inherited. {PP 223.1}

Grace is not inherited. A very bad father may have a godly son; a Christian father a profligate son. {TSB 45.2}

The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again. . . . A genuine conversion changes hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong. {Mar 237}

But many have inherited traits of character that in no way represent the divine Model. There are many who have some defect of character received as a birthright, which they have not overcome, but have cherished as though it were fine gold, and brought with them into their religious experience. In many cases these traits are retained through the entire life. For a time no particular harm may be seen to result from them; but the leaven is at work, and when a favorable opportunity arrives, the evil manifests itself. {5T 418.1}

Manifest the meekness and gentleness of Christ in dealing with the wayward little ones. Always bear in mind that they have received their perversity as an inheritance from the father or mother. Then bear with the children who have inherited your own trait of character. {AH 174.2}

Even if the character, habits, and practices of parents have been cast in an inferior mold, if the lessons given them in childhood and youth have led to an unhappy development of character, they need not despair. The converting power of God can transform inherited and cultivated tendencies; for the religion of Jesus is uplifting. "Born again" means a transformation, a new birth in Christ Jesus. {AH 206.1}

All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole, and every one who receives Christ as a personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes. {COL 330.2}

The harvest of life is character, and it is this that determines destiny, both for this life and for the life to come. {Ed 108.2}

The character formed in this world determines the destiny for eternity. {YI, August 17, 1899 par. 7}

Would you please explain why these different insights do not contradict one another. On the surface they seem contradictory.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #129268
12/01/10 03:47 PM
12/01/10 03:47 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Rosangela, thank you for answering my questions clearly and plainly. If you don't mind, I have a couple more. If sinful flesh and sinful character are one and the same thing, it follows, then, that what makes us guilty and condemned is something we inherited at conception, namely, sinful flesh/character. Thus, we are guilty and condemned the instant we are conceived, before we are born, before we begin cultivating character. If so, how does this differ from the false theory that we are conceived guilty and condemned based on Adam's sin?

I'm not sure it's entirely erroneous. What Ellen White says:

"Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences." {FW 88.3}

"As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death." {CG 475.3}

So, how I see it: We are condemned at conception not because Adam's sin is imputed to us, but because, when he sinned, he made us sharers of his sin, since, instead of an upright character, in harmony with God's law, he bequeathed to us a depraved character, in opposition to God's law, and imperfection of character is sin.

"The ethics inculcated by the Gospel acknowledge no standard but the perfection of God's mind, God's will. God requires from His creatures conformity to His will. Imperfection of character is sin, and sin is the transgression of the law. All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole. Every one who receives Christ as his personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes. This it the science of holiness." {ST, September 3, 1902 par. 1}

Quote:
A few more questions. Do we retain sinful flesh/character after we experience rebirth? Or, is it transformed and ceases tempting us from within to be unlike Jesus?

If transformation is gradual, we retain traces of it.

Quote:
If we retain it, does it cease tempting us? If not, does the fact it continues to tempt us make us guilty and condemned?

Yes, it makes us guilty and condemned. That's why we need Christ's righteousness.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #129269
12/01/10 03:52 PM
12/01/10 03:52 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Would you please explain why these different insights do not contradict one another. On the surface they seem contradictory.

What apparent contradictions are you referring to, specifically?

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #129274
12/01/10 05:29 PM
12/01/10 05:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, again, thank you for clearly answering my questions. I am sorry to say, though, that I disagree with you. I believe we develop specific traits of character as we react and respond to inside and outside stimuli and influences. In judgment, it is the traits of character we ourselves cultivate that will determine our eternal destiny. Guilt and condemnation is based on the sins we ourselves commit. Possessing sinful flesh is not a sin. Like us, Jesus possessed sinful flesh. Unlike us, though, He never sinned. Like Jesus, we can experience rebirth and enjoy righteousness.

The apparent contradictions in the quotes above have to do with some saying we inherit character and others saying we do not inherit character. What do you make of it?

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #129282
12/01/10 06:17 PM
12/01/10 06:17 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike, we do develop traits of character, but we are also born with traits of character. We are born with a character in the same way Adam was created with a character.

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

God's image in Adam was His character in Adam.

In the beginning, man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in form and feature. {GC 644.3}

So, when Ellen White says that character is not inherited, she is referring to the fact that "a noble, all-round character is not inherited." {COL 331.1}

All of us inherit a deformed, depraved character, not a noble character. For that character to become a noble one there must be effort on our part.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #129299
12/02/10 04:52 PM
12/02/10 04:52 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, does God require us to repent of the character we inherited at conception? Please provide quotes. Thank you.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #129308
12/03/10 12:16 PM
12/03/10 12:16 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike, inherited defects of character are sins of ignorance until we become conscious of them. When we become conscious of them, they must be repented of.

Defects of character must be repented of and overcome through the grace of Christ, and a symmetrical character must be formed while in this probationary state, that we may be fitted for the mansions above. {13MR 82.1}

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Rosangela] #129323
12/03/10 05:58 PM
12/03/10 05:58 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thank you for posting a quote. But I don't see how it addresses my question. Why do you think it says "inherited defects of character are sins of ignorance"? Do you see a difference between inherited and cultivated defective traits of character?

Here's the context of your quote:

Quote:
If you have become estranged, and have failed to be Bible Christians, be converted, for the character you bear in probationary time will be the character you will have at the coming of Christ. If you would be a saint in heaven, you must first be a saint on earth. {13MR 81.3}

The traits of character you cherish in life will not be changed by death or by the resurrection. You will come up from the grave with the same disposition you manifested in your home and in society. Jesus does not change the character at His coming. The work of transformation must be done now. Our daily lives are determining our destiny. Defects of character must be repented of and overcome through the grace of Christ, and a symmetrical character must be formed while in this probationary state, that we may be fitted for the mansions above. {13MR 82.1}

Will people be resurrected with the sinful traits of character they were ignorant of and therefore did not crucify before they died?

Here's what Ellen wrote about inherited and cultivated traits of character:

Quote:
But many have inherited traits of character that in no way represent the divine Model. There are many who have some defect of character received as a birthright, which they have not overcome, but have cherished as though it were fine gold, and brought with them into their religious experience. In many cases these traits are retained through the entire life. For a time no particular harm may be seen to result from them; but the leaven is at work, and when a favorable opportunity arrives, the evil manifests itself. {5T 418.1}

[In] order to be saved, they must have a new heart and a new spirit. The old, hereditary traits of character must be overcome. The natural desires of the soul must be changed. All deception, all falsifying, all evilspeaking, must be put away. The new life, which makes men and women Christlike, is to be lived. 36 {CCh 59.3}

The word of God often comes in collision with man's hereditary and cultivated traits of character and his habits of life. But the good-ground hearer, in receiving the word, accepts all its conditions and requirements. His habits, customs, and practices are brought into submission to God's word. In his view the commands of finite, erring man sink into insignificance beside the word of the infinite God. With the whole heart, with undivided purpose, he is seeking the life eternal, and at the cost of loss, persecution, or death itself, he will obey the truth. {COL 60.3}

Besetting sins must be battled with, and overcome. Objectionable traits of character, whether hereditary or cultivated, should be taken up separately, and compared with the great rule of righteousness; and in the light reflected from the word of God, they should be firmly resisted and overcome, through the strength of Christ. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." [Hebrews 12:14.] {CE 113.1}

Here are some particularly helpful insights regarding character:

Quote:
Characters are not formed in one mold. There is every phase of character received by children as an inheritance. The defects and the virtues in traits of character are thus revealed. Let every instructor take this into consideration. Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character, as also beauty of character, will have to be met, and much grace cultivated in the instructor to know how to deal with the erring for their present and eternal good. {FE 277.1}

The world needs evidences of sincere Christianity. Professed Christianity may be seen everywhere; but when the power of God's grace is seen in our churches, the members will work the works of Christ. Natural and hereditary traits of character will be transformed. The indwelling of His Spirit will enable them to reveal Christ's likeness, and in proportion to the purity of their piety will be the success of their work. {AG 263.3}

Men may possess capabilities given them in trust of God, but if they are not humble men, daily converted men, as vessels of honor, they will do the greater harm because of their capabilities. If they are not learners of Christ Jesus, if they do not pray and keep their natural hereditary and cultivated tendencies under control, traits of character that God abhors will pervert the judgment of those who associate with them (Letter 31a, 1894). {4BC 1138.5}

God wants you to let Him manage you, that you may be a lovable Christian. The Lord would have the natural and hereditary traits of character come under the pruning knife. Look steadfastly unto Jesus, that you may catch His spirit and cherish the qualities of Christlike character. Then it will be recognized by all who have any connection with you, that you have learned of Christ His meekness, His affection, His tenderness, His sympathy. {TMK 218.2}

We are counseled to "control" our inherited and cultivated ungodly traits of character. Natural and hereditary traits of character may be pruned and transformed to reflect the lovely traits of Christ's character.

Is there a difference between "a trait of character" and "character"? Seems to me "character" is the sum of all the "traits of character" we inherited and cultivated. What do you think? Also, I believe we will be judged based on the traits we ourselves cultivated and not on the traits we inherited and never got around to cultivating. Do you agree?

"Every day hereditary tendencies to wrong will strive for the mastery. Every day you are to war against your objectionable traits of character, until there are left in you none of those things which need to be separated from you. {VSS 304.4}

"When they fall upon Christ, their own hereditary and cultivated traits of character are taken away as hindrances to their being partakers of the divine nature. When self dies, then Christ lives in the human agent. He abides in Christ, and Christ lives in him. {YRP 62.2}

"Those who, through the grace given us, represent, not their own crude ideas, their own peculiar, hereditary, and cultivated objectionable traits of character, but the character of Christ, will be fit inhabitants for the heavenly city. {ST, November 14, 1892 par. 3}

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #129326
12/03/10 06:42 PM
12/03/10 06:42 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Rosangela, does God require us to repent of the character we inherited at conception? Please provide quotes. Thank you.

Sorry, but no quotes available at this time.

Does God want us to turn away from what we inherit at conception? Or is our inheritance something that we want to keep for eternity?

I believe that our natural inheritance is not worth having, and therefore we should turn away from it. What we want to keep instead is our supernatural inheritance from the new birth. Do you agree?

When Adam fell, selfishness took the place of love. Can that be said of us at conception?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: asygo] #129338
12/04/10 04:14 PM
12/04/10 04:14 PM
asygo  Offline
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Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,607
California, USA
Some quotes....

True repentance is more than sorrow for sin. It is a resolute turning away from evil. {PP 557.2}

Many have received as a birthright traits of character that do no honor to the cause of God, and through wrong education these have developed into marked defects. {RH, November 24, 1885 par. 5}

If before the birth of her child she is self-indulgent, if she is selfish, impatient, and exacting, these traits will be reflected in the disposition of the child. Thus many children have received as a birthright almost unconquerable tendencies to evil. {AH 256.1}

Men are not naturally inclined to be benevolent, but to be sordid and avaricious, and to live for self. {CSW 138.2}

As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death. {CG 475.3}

Yes, we must turn away from our natural inheritance.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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