Why do you think fetuses and infants are incapable of experiencing rebirth?

Come on Tom, surely you can see that it is impossible to be re-born until you are first born? You cannot repeat something you did not do a first time.

The real question is, how can the unborn cultivate character, let alone a sinful one?

This is implying that "rebirth" is literal, but it isn't, so this logic doesn't apply here.

I have a specific reason for asking MM this question. It will probably come up in a bit.



Yes, this is a good question.

Rebirth requires conviction, confession, repentance, pardon, thorough Bible study and prayer, commitment, public testimony, and baptism. Fetuses and infants have not reached the age of accountability and are, therefore, incapable of experiencing rebirth.

What do you have in mind?

Seems logical to conclude, then, that being redeemed "in Christ" trumps, cancels being condemned "in Adam".

You're saying you don't think a person can be converted until they reach the age of accountability? Is this correct? If so, when do you think the age of accountability is? (I realize this differs from person to person; a general idea would be fine).

Also you speak of public testimony and baptism. Are you saying you don't think a person can experience rebirth until they are baptized?

Regarding what I have in mind, there are a couple of things. One I'll wait to discuss until your response, which has to do with the age of conversion, and so forth.

The other has to do with whether God can work through a fetus or infant. We know from the case of John the Baptist that the Holy Spirit can work with even a fetus. There's no reason to assume that the Holy Spirit couldn't work with a newborn either.

So the fact that a newborn has sinful flesh doesn't prevent it from being used by the Holy Spirit. Similarly Christ could have taken our flesh, and been used by the Holy Spirit.

I am new to the board.

So hello.

I apologise that I have not had time to read the whole thread, but would like to offer this thought, if it hasn't already been offered:

Jesus was born "born again".

If we understand what that is, we will understand something of Christ's nature I sense.


Mark :-)

People reach the age of accountability at different times for specific aspects of life and living. As it relates to obeying mom and not stealing cookies it happens around 2 years old. Regarding premarital sex it happens around 12.

I see a difference between experiencing rebirth and experiencing conversion. Rebirth can happen, and usually does, before conversion. Rebirth involves conviction, confession, and repentance as it pertains to bad habits and practices commonly condemned by society (lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, murder, etc). Baptism and public testimony follow rebirth and are required for salvation. Whereas, conversion involves discovering everything else Jesus commanded us to obey and observe and then consenting to live in harmony with it (Sabbath keeping, diet, doctrine, etc).

Concerning rebirth Jesus said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." We are born and conceived "in sin". "All have sinned." "There is none righteous, no, not one." We begin life, as it were, dead in sin. None of this, however, prevents the Holy Spirit from exerting an influence on us from the moment of conception. John Baptist is an example of someone who particularly benefited from the influence of the Holy Spirit in his mother's womb. Does this mean he, unlike others, experienced rebirth and conversion before he was born, that the biblical descriptions cited above did not apply to him ("All have sinned." "There is none righteous, no, not one.")?

That Jesus did not sin before He reached the age of accountability is a mystery that God has not seen fit to explain to us yet. "He was tempted in all points like as man is tempted, yet He is called "that holy thing." It is a mystery that is left unexplained to mortals that Christ could be tempted in all points like as we are, and yet be without sin. {5BC 1128.6}

Hi, Mark. Welcome to the forum. My name is Mike. I agree with the idea that Jesus was born, as it were, born again. In fact, to be technical about it, it is even more accurate to say He was conceived in a born again state. By "born again state" I mean the sinful flesh nature He took at conception was under the control of a sanctified mind and spirit. Of course, precisely how He managed to control it before He reached the age of accountability is a mystery God has not yet explained to us.

Do you see what I mean?