Of course. How could you have a human being without a head? What we're really interested in is what people mean.



This is all very vague.

I've not seen any evidence that LK, or any of the others of their ilk, disagreed with Jones and Waggoner in regards to Christ's human nature. If you could quote something to support this idea, that would be helpful. I read the article you cited, and didn't see evidence in that article that he was disagreeing with Jones' point. If one were to quote the following to LK:



and asked if if he agreed, I'd be very surprised if he didn't.



I read the article you cited, as well as other articles the LGTers have written.



I've spoken to other LGTers. I'm familiar with their theology. I don't know of their having any disagreement with what Jones and Waggoner wrote in regards to this topic. Your assertion that the evidence does not support what I'm postulating seems to be based on the fact that LK didn't respond to your query. That's not very good evidence. Good evidence would be something written which states there is a disagreement, and what the disagreement is.



I read the article. What I said was based on what I read in the article. I didn't see anything in the article that supports what you're saying. I did see things supporting what I was saying, in regards to Christ's not being omniscient. I would be happy to quote that for you if you wish, but I assume you've read this, since you were the one who referred the article to me.

If you see something in the article which supports your point of view, that LK is not agreeing with J&W, assuming that's your point, please quote that section of the article, and we can discuss that.



What exactly did you ask him? What specifically did he say?



I've not seen this. If you can quote something that they wrote which says that Jesus had a sinful mind, or that Jones was wrong in saying what he said (which I quoted above), I would be happy to concede the point. I haven't seen any evidence that what you're asserting is the case yet, however.



Would you cite something please? How we word things is very important. I'd like to see what was actually said.



This sounds similar to what Jones said.



Anything we "see" that Christ did can only be seen by faith. This whole point seems moot. We don't have a video of Him or anything like that.

At any rate, to further discuss this, I think we need to see actual quotations. There are two possible issues that I could see where I might disagree with them. One is how things are worded (I definitely saw this in the first LK article I read, the one you referred me to; I thought the second one was more clearly written, one which I found on my own, and referenced). The other is regarding what was actually meant.

To this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were wording issues I would take exception to, but I haven't seen meaning issues, insofar as Christ's assumed human nature is concerned. I haven't seen evidence, for example, that they disagree with Jones and Waggoner taught, and, indeed, something you mentioned above I remarked sounded similar to what Jones said. I'd be very interested if you could produce something they've written in regards to Christ's assumed human nature that differs from what Jones and Waggoner taught.

The early rain was in the spring, and the latter rain was in the fall. There was 3 1/2 months of drought in between. These 3 1/2 months of drought became 3 1/2 year in the time of Elijah, which was 360 + 360 + 360 + 180 = 1260 days. These 1260 days became 1260 prophetic years in Revelation, representing a drought of the word of God.

Tom,

The two rains are mentioned in 4 verses in the bible;

Deuteronomy 11:13-15 (New International Version, ©2010)

13 So if you faithfully obey the commands I am giving you today—to love the LORD your God and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul— 14 then I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and olive oil. 15 I will provide grass in the fields for your cattle, and you will eat and be satisfied.

Jeremiah 5:23-25 (New International Version, ©2010)

24 They do not say to themselves,
‘Let us fear the LORD our God,
who gives autumn and spring rains in season,
who assures us of the regular weeks of harvest.’

Joel 2:22-24 (New International Version, ©2010)

23 Be glad, people of Zion,
rejoice in the LORD your God,
for he has given you the autumn rains
because he is faithful.
He sends you abundant showers,
both autumn and spring rains, as before.

James 5:6-8 (New International Version, ©2010)

7 Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord’s coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop, patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains. 8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near.

You may here notice that the autumn rain is always mentioned first with the spring rains following it.

This is further confirmed by looking at the concordance at blueletterbible.com which says the following about the word for early rain in Deuteronomy 11:14

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3138&t=KJV

Transliteration
yowreh

1) early rain, autumn shower
a) rain which falls in Palestine from late October until early December

And consequently

Transliteration
malqowsh

1) latter rain, spring rain
a) the March and April rains which mature the crops of Palestine


To conclude, a graph of the weather pattern over Israel during the year:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Israel#Climate_charts_of_different_locations_in_Israel

Therefore what I learned stands confirmed. Between the early and the late rains is the rainy season.

This goes through the time line:

* Early Spring Rain (First Rain). The coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
* Ploughing. When God resurrected Jesus and the first fruits, He literally ploughed the earth, or dug up the earth. For three and a half years Jesus and the disciples ploughed the field in Israel to get them ready for the planting of the seed (His death) and the coming of the Holy Spirit with power.
* Seed Planted. Jesus was the Seed planted in the earth at His death. Ploughing and planting continued during the rainy season to increase the yield.
* Reaping the Grain harvest. The 3000 souls saved at Pentecost and the dead who were raised at the resurrection.
* Drought. In the physical world the summer drought occurred in this time. But in the spiritual world it is still raining. The Holy Spirit is here, but He is ignored. So, practically, there was a spiritual drought in the middle of rain from heaven.
* Late Autumn Rain (Last Rain). The outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the end of time in the harvest rain....
* Reaping the Fruit harvest. The billions of souls saved at the Second Coming.
* Ploughing. Notice that the spiritual and agricultural ploughing seasons merge at the great resurrection. We will be ploughed up from this old earth and planted in Heaven.
* Winter Rest. We will grow during the winter months of the millennium.

This is from http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre17hstfeasts.html. I didn't look through this in detail, but it seemed to have this outlined as I understand it. That is:

* Early Spring Rain (First Rain). The coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
* Drought. In the physical world the summer drought occurred in this time.
* Late Autumn Rain (Last Rain).

There was this note:



The 1260 years come from:

a.3 1/2 months of drought
b.lengthened to 3 1/2 years of drought
c.equals 1260 days

Sure, it sounds very good on theory for us who come from the north. Its only flaw is that it contradicts the Bible. So the question for you is, how important is this flaw? Are you willing to overlook the fact that your nice piece of theology here isnt biblical?

Thank you for sharing this Tom. :-)

Apreciated.

quote=TomThis goes through the time line:

* Early Spring Rain (First Rain)(in biblical hebrew / greek, the spring rain is the late rain). The coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
* Ploughing. When God resurrected Jesus and the first fruits, He literally ploughed the earth, or dug up the earth. For three and a half years Jesus and the disciples ploughed the field in Israel to get them ready for the planting of the seed (His death) and the coming of the Holy Spirit with power.
* Seed Planted. Jesus was the Seed planted in the earth at His death. Ploughing and planting continued during the rainy season to increase the yield.
* Reaping the Grain harvest. The 3000 souls saved at Pentecost and the dead who were raised at the resurrection.
* Drought. In the physical world the summer drought occurred in this time. But in the spiritual world it is still raining. The Holy Spirit is here, but He is ignored. So, practically, there was a spiritual drought in the middle of rain from heaven.

So, this is a two year sceme? Since this drought is the second dry season mentioned..

* Late Autumn Rain (Last Rain). The outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the end of time in the harvest rain....

Again, the "autumn rain" and the "early rain" are translated from the same word in both biblical Hebrew and biblical Greek.

* Reaping the Fruit harvest. The billions of souls saved at the Second Coming.

Which fruits would this be? Grapes were harvested from June to September and Figs and Pomegranades in August and September. Or are we in the 3rd year of this table already? Considering that none of these months can be said to come after late autumn in your preceding point.

* Ploughing. Notice that the spiritual and agricultural ploughing seasons merge at the great resurrection. We will be ploughed up from this old earth and planted in Heaven.
* Winter Rest. We will grow during the winter months of the millennium.

It does make sense that our time in Heaven is pictured with the heavy winter rains..

This is from http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre17hstfeasts.html. I didn't look through this in detail, but it seemed to have this outlined as I understand it. That is:

Fascinating source you have found here Tom, especially look at this page: http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre17httscience.html
where they proceed to show how the tabernacle is modelled on the periodic table of elements, among many other groundbreaking discoveries. Though, considering his(or her) lack of accuracy with reading the bible, I would advice some caution when learning about all the discoveries of modern science that are hidden between the covers of the bible.

* Early Spring Rain (First Rain). The coming of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
* Drought. In the physical world the summer drought occurred in this time.
* Late Autumn Rain (Last Rain).

There was this note:



The 1260 years come from:

a.3 1/2 months of drought
b.lengthened to 3 1/2 years of drought
c.equals 1260 days
[/quote]

The Hebrews had different seasons, which can make things confusing. The agricultural cycle that deals with the early and latter rains, which involves the 3 1/2 month (or year, or 1260 days) drought is the one that started in autumn.

When I say that had different seasons, I mean they could reckon the year in different ways.

This was just a site I found at random, looking for something that would have the time line written out.

The agricultural cycle, prophecy, sanctuary, and their world view (i.e. Hebrew cosmology) were all intertwined. Also the "Exodus experience."

It's very interesting how the Hebrew mind worked, and all the complexity that's implicit in their writings, which just goes over our heads.

Well, im just saying.. A little source criticism would be in order, not just taking the first one that happens to say what you wish to hear.

This is stuff I already know. I was just trying to get you enough information to research it, not trying to prove anything by the web site. I told you I hadn't looked at the site carefully.