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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Tom]
#129669
12/16/10 09:47 PM
12/16/10 09:47 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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So, now that your research and mine turned out opposing results, whence to?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: mtimber]
#129676
12/16/10 10:24 PM
12/16/10 10:24 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM: You said believers can be like Jesus. When does it happen?
MT: There are the stages of the Christian experience we have to go through which was given in the chronology of the Disciples experience.
It all relates to the Holy Spirit.
1. They walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, but did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2. They received the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit in the upper room, after Christ's ascencsion (the former rain).
3. They prayed and fasted for 40 days and were taught about the "kingdom of God" by Jesus (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
4. They then received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (the latter rain), which was to give them power for evangelism.
Now most of our brethren are still in stage 1.
Some of us have moved to stage 2 & 3.
When we have learnt stage 3, we will be ready for stage 4.
The outpouring.
At that time, the Loud Cry swells and goes to the whole world.
So we have to figure out individually where we are and where we should be... I've never heard anything like this before. It sounds like you're saying believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth. Where in the Bible and the SOP is this idea taught?
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129683
12/16/10 11:44 PM
12/16/10 11:44 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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So, now that your research and mine turned out opposing results, whence to? I suggest looking into the 3 1/2 month drought.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Tom]
#129689
12/17/10 05:20 AM
12/17/10 05:20 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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The one occurring between the late rains and the early rains (if biblical terminology is used) and between "early" rains and "late" rains if teachinghearts.org terminology is used?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: vastergotland]
#129700
12/17/10 08:03 PM
12/17/10 08:03 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The Hebrews had more than one season, which is what makes things confusing. It's like we have calendar years and fiscal years.
In terms of prophecy, the order of events is:
a.Early rain
b.3 1/2 month drought (become 3 1/2 years = 1260 days = 1260 years)
c.Latter rain (brings in the harvest)
The autumn to autumn year was used for this reckoning, which had a 3 1/2 month drought between the early and latter rain.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Tom]
#129703
12/17/10 09:27 PM
12/17/10 09:27 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Tom,
Lets try the biblical approach. Can you make your a-b-c case above by the bible?
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129721
12/19/10 10:52 AM
12/19/10 10:52 AM
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MM: You said believers can be like Jesus. When does it happen?
MT: There are the stages of the Christian experience we have to go through which was given in the chronology of the Disciples experience.
It all relates to the Holy Spirit.
1. They walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, but did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2. They received the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit in the upper room, after Christ's ascencsion (the former rain).
3. They prayed and fasted for 40 days and were taught about the "kingdom of God" by Jesus (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
4. They then received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (the latter rain), which was to give them power for evangelism.
Now most of our brethren are still in stage 1.
Some of us have moved to stage 2 & 3.
When we have learnt stage 3, we will be ready for stage 4.
The outpouring.
At that time, the Loud Cry swells and goes to the whole world.
So we have to figure out individually where we are and where we should be... I've never heard anything like this before. It sounds like you're saying believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth. Where in the Bible and the SOP is this idea taught? This is all biblical, no external sources. It is relating to the disciples experience, which can be tracked. Would you like me to point to the texts?
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: mtimber]
#129724
12/19/10 05:20 PM
12/19/10 05:20 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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MM: You said believers can be like Jesus. When does it happen?
MT: There are the stages of the Christian experience we have to go through which was given in the chronology of the Disciples experience.
It all relates to the Holy Spirit.
1. They walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, but did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2. They received the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit in the upper room, after Christ's ascencsion (the former rain).
3. They prayed and fasted for 40 days and were taught about the "kingdom of God" by Jesus (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
4. They then received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (the latter rain), which was to give them power for evangelism.
Now most of our brethren are still in stage 1. Some of us have moved to stage 2 & 3. When we have learnt stage 3, we will be ready for stage 4. The outpouring. At that time, the Loud Cry swells and goes to the whole world. So we have to figure out individually where we are and where we should be...
MM: I've never heard anything like this before. It sounds like you're saying believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth. Where in the Bible and the SOP is this idea taught?
MT: This is all biblical, no external sources. It is relating to the disciples experience, which can be tracked. Would you like me to point to the texts? Mark, I'm fairly familiar with the disciples experience, but thank you for offering to post the texts. I guess what I'm asking is - Where in the Bible or the SOP does it say believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth? I am not aware of any texts which describe the "process of conversion" in this way. Seems to me that on the day of Pentecost thousands experienced rebirth. What do you think?
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129725
12/19/10 05:28 PM
12/19/10 05:28 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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4. They then received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (the latter rain), which was to give them power for evangelism. The official SDA position concerning the "latter rain" prophecy/experience makes it clear it hasn't happened yet. Do you agree with this position? You might want to join the study on this link.
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Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith?
[Re: Mountain Man]
#129737
12/20/10 08:13 AM
12/20/10 08:13 AM
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MM: You said believers can be like Jesus. When does it happen?
MT: There are the stages of the Christian experience we have to go through which was given in the chronology of the Disciples experience.
It all relates to the Holy Spirit.
1. They walked with Jesus for 3 1/2 years, but did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
2. They received the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit in the upper room, after Christ's ascencsion (the former rain).
3. They prayed and fasted for 40 days and were taught about the "kingdom of God" by Jesus (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
4. They then received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost (the latter rain), which was to give them power for evangelism.
Now most of our brethren are still in stage 1. Some of us have moved to stage 2 & 3. When we have learnt stage 3, we will be ready for stage 4. The outpouring. At that time, the Loud Cry swells and goes to the whole world. So we have to figure out individually where we are and where we should be...
MM: I've never heard anything like this before. It sounds like you're saying believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth. Where in the Bible and the SOP is this idea taught?
MT: This is all biblical, no external sources. It is relating to the disciples experience, which can be tracked. Would you like me to point to the texts? Mark, I'm fairly familiar with the disciples experience, but thank you for offering to post the texts. I guess what I'm asking is - Where in the Bible or the SOP does it say believers cannot be like Jesus until after 3 1/2 years and several more time consuming stages of growth? I am not aware of any texts which describe the "process of conversion" in this way. Seems to me that on the day of Pentecost thousands experienced rebirth. What do you think? I do not think it is a specific time period, rather a stage if that helps. :-) This is the only detailed description we have of rebirth in the scripture. The disciples did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit whilst they walked with Jesus. They received that in the upper room after Jesus' ascenscion. Yet they were walking with Jesus, but not converted. They then spent 40 days praying and fasting, once they received the breath of life (confession and repentance), and education about the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. Then at Pentecost they received the outpouring, specifically for evangelism. I believe each of us goes through a similar experience, but not identical in length of time etc. I hope that clarifies the point? Mark
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