Regarding #129780, I responded on the other thread. Why are you posting these twice?



Yes I have, many times, over dozens (hundreds?) of pages. Please stop writing this. If there's something you don't understand, or wish to discuss further, you may quote it, and ask your question or make your comments, but please don't say I haven't explained something when I have.



I would say, "But therein lies the solution to the problem." You see a disconnect between the NT Jesus and the OT God. The disconnect goes away when we are convinced that all that man needs to know, or can know, of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son during His earthly mission.



I assume the same principles were at work in the OT that Jesus Christ revealed and spoke of, principles which are clearly articulated in the GC 35-37 passage.

We have a great deal of detail in regards to what happened in the destruction of Jerusalem, a whole chapter, over many pages. Scripture records this as an event proceeding from God, that God would "murder" the guilty ones. But the GC passage explains that God is presented as doing that which He permits. He's not to be looked as the executioner of the sentence against the sinner, but the sinner himself sets into motion a course of action by His resistance to the Holy Spirit, which God permits to occur.

Do you disagree with the idea that Jesus Christ is non-violent?

You said, ". . . you reject the interpretation of this text that would have God lying." I've never heard of such an interpretation, so how can I reject it? I believe Jesus sent the lying spirit to lie to Ahab.


And what, the lying spirit conveniently came up with the very lie needed for things to work out according to God's will?

Yes, I believe Jesus is non-violent. The "act of punishment" is non-violent. For example, on those rare occasions when I had to spank my children, I was not being violent, although technically I hit them, which some people claim is violent.

Now, when did Jesus demonstrate the GC 35-37 principle while He was here in the flesh? That is, when did He withdraw His protection and permit evil men to slaughter men, women, and children?

And, when did Jesus demonstrate, while here in the flesh, commanding holy people to kill unholy people? If He didn't do it in the NT, how can we understand why He did it in the OT?

Setting people on fire in not "punishment." Surely you know that. You wouldn't set a child of yours on fire to punish them.

Also, setting someone on fire is violent behavior. Simply using a different word, like "punishment" as opposed to "violence," doesn't change the actions undertaken, and setting people on fire is a violent act.



That's not the principle (your second sentence). Here's a place where the principles of GC 35-37 was demonstrated:



When not desired, rather than "punish" people by setting them on fire, Jesus departed.

Also, the destruction of Jerusalem is a good example. Remember how Jesus said He longed to protect them, as a hen protects its chickens, but they weren't willing.



We should think of things in terms of principle. What's the principle involved here? It's the same principle Jesus spoke of in His comments regarding divorce.

Tom, what does divorce and executing capital punishment and killing enemy soldiers during war have in common?

If burning people alive is an "act of violence" who or what, then, do you think caused fire to descend from heaven and burned alive the two bands of fifty in response to Elijah's prayer?

And, how does Jesus departing result in His enemies being burned alive?

Who or what remains to burn them alive?

Who or what decides how His enemies die when Jesus departs?

You said, ". . . you reject the interpretation of this text that would have God lying." I've never heard of such an interpretation, so how can I reject it? I believe Jesus sent the lying spirit to lie to Ahab.


And what, the lying spirit conveniently came up with the very lie needed for things to work out according to God's will?

Neither express God's ideal will, but are things God allows because of the hardness of the hearts of those with whom He is dealing.



Why would this matter?



It allows the fire to occur.



Something or someone. Why does this matter? The only thing that matters is whether it's God or not, isn't that true? That is, either God directly takes action to cause people to be burnt alive, and that's His intention, or He doesn't.



From GC 35-37, we read that the Spirit of God, when persistently resisted and rejected, eventually departs, leaving those who have rejected Him to suffer the result of their choice. As to those this happens, that depends on the situation.

You mean sent as in ordered? Or sent as in permitted? If the former, then this is tantamount to God's lying, as anything an agent does for you, as an expression of your will, is as if you yourself performed the act.



I guess this means "And what if, the lying spirit," etc. This question is based on a false premise. God isn't dependent upon lies in order to accomplish His will.

Where in the Bible or the SOP does it say Jesus "allowed" capital punishment and killing enemy soldiers during war? The fact is Jesus "commanded" both.


I believe it was Jesus who caused fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty. I realize you believe I am dead wrong. What is not clear, though, is who or what you believe caused fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty fire to burn alive the two bands of fifty. I cannot remember you ever actually answering this question.


This makes it sound like fire is self-acting. The truth is, however, fire cannot do anything without Jesus. Ellen wrote, "Many teach that matter possesses vital power. They hold that certain properties are imparted to matter, and it is then left to act through its own inherent power; and that the operations of nature are carried on in harmony with fixed laws, that God himself cannot interfere with. This is false science, and is sustained by nothing in the word of God. Nature is not self-acting; she is the servant of her Creator. God does not annul his laws nor work contrary to them; but he is continually using them as his instruments. Nature testifies of an intelligence, a presence, an active agency, that works in, and through, and above her laws. There is in nature the continual working of the Father and the Son. Said Christ, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." {HL 290.1}


See comments and questions above.


Why did fire kill the two bands of fifty when Jesus withdrew and not water or lightning or wind or something else? Was it arbitrary? Or, was there some kind of natural cause and effect reason? That is, did their specific sin cause fire to burn them alive? And, again, what was the origin of this fire? Where was it residing until Jesus withdrew?

Here's the story in the Bible:

2 Chronicles
18:18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and [on] his left.
18:19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And [the LORD] said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do [even] so.
18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.