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Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: kland] #130217
01/19/11 02:17 PM
01/19/11 02:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
How much fermented beverage can a person consume without impairing their judgment and reducing their ability and desire to resist certain temptations? Is it possible to slowly build up a tolerance to one small glass per day without endangering themselves in the process?

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: kland] #130223
01/19/11 04:33 PM
01/19/11 04:33 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: kland
In which case, one could then argue the benefits of drinking alcohol in spite of what the Bible says.


I don't think the Bible says that drinking wine is bad for your health, so I don't, even if this were true, that such an argument could be made.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Tom] #130224
01/19/11 04:37 PM
01/19/11 04:37 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
How much fermented beverage can a person consume without impairing their judgment and reducing their ability and desire to resist certain temptations?


Not much. But is one drank slowly, in conjunction with food, some could be. It depends on different factors, such as one's sex and size.

Quote:
Is it possible to slowly build up a tolerance to one small glass per day without endangering themselves in the process?


If you're talking about the impairment of judgment, no, as this would depend upon the effect of alcohol upon the brain. This could be controlled by drinking with food, or drinking slowly. One could choose not to make any decisions while drinking smile.

Regarding endangering oneself (if you mean physically), that's the part that's unclear. I believe Sister White refers to alcohol as a poison.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Tom] #130251
01/20/11 03:02 AM
01/20/11 03:02 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Is there a way to drink alcohol without impairing judgment and reducing the ability and desire to resist certain temptations? If not, then no wonder God expressly forbids it.

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Mountain Man] #130253
01/20/11 03:22 AM
01/20/11 03:22 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
What are you thinking of in terms of your comment? That is, expressly forbids it where?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Tom] #130266
01/20/11 04:26 PM
01/20/11 04:26 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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"God expressly forbade the use of wine that would have an influence to becloud the intellect. {Con 81.2}

Quote:
6. Total Abstinence Our Position

The Only Safe Course.--The only safe course is to touch not, taste not, handle not, tea, coffee, wines, tobacco, opium, and alcoholic drinks. The necessity for the men of this generation to call to their aid the power of the will, strengthened by the grace of God, in order to withstand the temptations of Satan and resist the least indulgence of perverted appetite is twice as great as it was several generations ago. But the present generation have less power of self-control than had those who lived then.--Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 488. {Te 163.3}

Let us never partake of a glass of alcoholic liquor. Let us never touch it.--Manuscript 38 1/2, 1905. {Te 163.4}

The Will to Touch Not, Taste Not, and Handle Not.--If all would be vigilant and faithful in guarding the little openings made by the moderate use of the so-called harmless wine and cider, the highway to drunkenness would be closed up. What is needed in every community is firm purpose, and a will to touch not, taste not, handle not; then the temperance reformation would be strong, permanent, and thorough.-- Review and Herald, March 25, 1884. {Te 163.5}

Abstain strictly from all stimulating food or drink. You are God's property. You are not to abuse any organ of the body. You are to care wisely for your body, that there may be a perfect development of the whole man. Is it not an act of ingratitude on your part to do anything so to weaken your vital forces that you are unable properly to represent Him or to do the work He has for you to do?--Letter 236, 1903. {Te 164.1}

Temperance Principles Stem From God's Law.--If men strictly and conscientiously kept the law of God, there would be no drunkards, no tobacco inebriates, no distress, penury, and crime. Liquor saloons would be closed for want of patronage, and nine tenths of all misery existing in the world would come to an end. Young men would walk forth with erect and noble forms, free and elastic step, clear eye, and healthy complexions. {Te 164.2}

When ministers, from their pulpits, make loyalty to the law of God disreputable; when they join with the world in making it unpopular; when these teachers of the people indulge in the social glass, and the defiling narcotic, tobacco, what depth of vice may not be expected from the youth of this generation? ... You have heard much in regard to the authority and sanctity of the law of the Ten Commandments. God is the author of that law, which is the foundation of His government in heaven and on earth. All enlightened nations have based their laws upon this grand foundation of all law; yet the legislators and ministers, who are recognized as the leaders and teachers of the people, live in open violation of the principles inculcated in those holy statutes. {Te 164.3}

Many ministers preach Christ from the pulpit, and then do not hesitate to benumb their senses by wine tippling, or even indulging in brandy and other liquors. The Christian standard says, "Touch not; taste not; handle not;" and the laws of our physical being repeat the solemn injunction with emphasis. It is the duty of every Christian minister to lay this truth plainly before his people, teaching it both by precept and example. . . . {Te 164.4}

The Christian church is pronounced to be the salt of the earth, the light of the world. Can we apply this to the churches of today, many of whose members are using, not only the defiling narcotic, tobacco, but intoxicating wine, and spirituous liquor, and are placing the wine cup to their neighbor's lips? The church of Christ should be a school in which the inexperienced youth should be educated to control their appetites, from a moral and religious standpoint. They should there be taught how unsafe it is to tamper with temptation, to dally with sin; that there is no such thing as being a moderate and temperate drinker; that the path of the tippler is ever downward. They should be exhorted to "look not thou upon the wine when it is red," which "at the last biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder."--Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1878. {Te 165.1}

Total Abstinence Our Platform.--When temperance is presented as a part of the gospel, many will see their need of reform. They will see the evil of intoxicating liquors and that total abstinence is the only platform on which God's people can conscientiously stand.--Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 75. {Te 165.2}

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Mountain Man] #130269
01/20/11 04:52 PM
01/20/11 04:52 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
So when you made the comment that God expressly forbids alcohol, you had in mind the SOP statement from Con 81.2?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Mountain Man] #130283
01/20/11 09:35 PM
01/20/11 09:35 PM
J
JAK  Offline
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
That's just the point, MM. God DOES NOT expressly forbid alcohol. In fact, the opposite appears to be the case, as long as it is used responsibly and in moderation.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Tom] #130299
01/21/11 01:25 PM
01/21/11 01:25 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
Originally Posted By: Tom
Originally Posted By: kland
In which case, one could then argue the benefits of drinking alcohol in spite of what the Bible says.


I don't think the Bible says that drinking wine is bad for your health, so I don't, even if this were true, that such an argument could be made.

Daryl had offered, "Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whoever goes astray by it is not wise. "
There are other places that say it bites like a serpent. If this isn't saying it's bad for your health, isn't it saying it's bad for you?

Re: Christian Living & Alcohol [Re: Tom] #130315
01/21/11 05:20 PM
01/21/11 05:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
So when you made the comment that God expressly forbids alcohol, you had in mind the SOP statement from Con 81.2?

I believe the quotes I posted represent the biblical view. Do you agree? Or, do you feel Ellen added to the words of God? Do you think she misrepresented God's view?

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