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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: kland]
#130488
01/27/11 02:21 PM
01/27/11 02:21 PM
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Jesus healed Simon the Leper, the scoundrel who led Mary into a life of sin. A "generous action" indeed.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Mountain Man]
#130500
01/27/11 04:11 PM
01/27/11 04:11 PM
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Brazil
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The unconverted are not completely destitute of love, compassion, generosity, etc. Jesus said:
Matthew 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
The unconverted in this passage (the tax collectors) are able to love those who love them. What they are unable to do is to love their enemies.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: kland]
#130507
01/27/11 07:34 PM
01/27/11 07:34 PM
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Please address the following the comments and questions:
Christians are also guilty of doing bad things. But they also help feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy. What is the source of their "generous actions"? What is the source of their sordid actions? Is it possible to do bad things in the morning, generous things in the afternoon, and bad things in the evening? If so, is the Holy Spirit the source of the generous things they do? I think not. I believe people can perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ." I'm not sure what you believe.
Do you agree with Ellen that people on earth can perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ"? If so, what is the source of their "generous actions" - self, Satan, or the Holy Spirit? By "generous actions" I have in mind helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy. Perhaps you would like the name other "generous actions" instead? How is it that you think a person can actually be loving and compassionate without any help from God? I don't mean simply performing certain actions which may appear to be loving or compassionate, but being generally loving and compassionate. The actions stemming from a loving and compassionate person will be loving and compassionate, but if a person is not loving and compassionate, can he really do loving and compassionate things? Here's something from the SOP: The children of God are those who are partakers of His nature. It is not earthly rank, nor birth, nor nationality, nor religious privilege, which proves that we are members of the family of God; it is love, a love that embraces all humanity. Even sinners whose hearts are not utterly closed to God's Spirit, will respond to kindness; while they may give hate for hate, they will also give love for love. But it is only the Spirit of God that gives love for hatred. To be kind to the unthankful and to the evil, to do good hoping for nothing again, is the insignia of the royalty of heaven, the sure token by which the children of the Highest reveal their high estate. (MB 75)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Tom]
#130523
01/28/11 03:57 PM
01/28/11 03:57 PM
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M: Do you agree with Ellen that people on earth can perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ"? If so, what is the source of their "generous actions" - self, Satan, or the Holy Spirit? By "generous actions" I have in mind helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy.
T: I don't mean simply performing certain actions which may appear to be loving or compassionate . . . I don't understand how your observation addresses my question. It sounds like you're saying the fact they are helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy only appears to be kind and loving and compassionate but in reality it is not. Which suggests the source of their "generous actions" is evil and selfish. But does it matter to the poor and needy since they are receiving much needed help?
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Mountain Man]
#130574
01/31/11 05:03 PM
01/31/11 05:03 PM
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MM, I've been asking you the same question for a couple of weeks now, without a response, as far as I can tell. What I've been asking you is why you think that people can be loving and compassionate without assistance from God. My belief is we have sinful natures, and because of this, we cannot do good apart from divine help.
My observation was not meant to address your question, but to clarify the question I've been trying to ask you for several weeks.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Tom]
#130577
02/01/11 12:20 AM
02/01/11 12:20 AM
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What I've been asking you is why you think that people can be loving and compassionate without assistance from God. My belief is we have sinful natures, and because of this, we cannot do good apart from divine help. I'm basing my observation on two things - 1) Ellen wrote that people can perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ", and 2) I know people who perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ". Do you agree with Ellen? If so, what is the source of their "generous actions" - self, Satan, or the Holy Spirit? By "generous actions" I have in mind helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Mountain Man]
#130615
02/04/11 02:43 PM
02/04/11 02:43 PM
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. . . we cannot do good apart from divine help. Is helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy doing something "good"? If so, how do you explain the fact so many people who have seen Jesus in the best light, and decided to reject Him, "do good" things like help feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy? What is the source of their "generous actions"?
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Mountain Man]
#130619
02/04/11 10:25 PM
02/04/11 10:25 PM
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T:What I've been asking you is why you think that people can be loving and compassionate without assistance from God. My belief is we have sinful natures, and because of this, we cannot do good apart from divine help.
M:I'm basing my observation on two things - 1) Ellen wrote that people can perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ", and 2) I know people who perform "generous actions" "without the renewing power of Christ".
Do you agree with Ellen? What I wrote above is a paraphrase of what Ellen White wrote. We are born with sinful natures which means that we, apart from divine assistance, are unable to do good. Regarding the quote of Ellen White's you are referencing, I agree with what Rosangela wrote -- I think she understood it the way EGW intended, and that you are attributing to EGW's quote a meaning she did not intend. If so, what is the source of their "generous actions" - self, Satan, or the Holy Spirit? By "generous actions" I have in mind helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy. The source of anything good is God. There is no one good but God alone.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Tom]
#130620
02/04/11 10:39 PM
02/04/11 10:39 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Lawrence, Kansas
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T:. . . we cannot do good apart from divine help.
M:Is helping feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy doing something "good"? If so, how do you explain the fact so many people who have seen Jesus in the best light, and decided to reject Him, "do good" things like help feed, clothe, and house the poor and needy? What is the source of their "generous actions"? If the act is a good act, then God was behind it.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: "God destroys no man" explained
[Re: Tom]
#130624
02/05/11 12:20 AM
02/05/11 12:20 AM
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If the act is a good act, then God was behind it. Do you believe this is true 100% of the time? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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