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Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13105
05/03/05 10:44 PM
05/03/05 10:44 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
We miss a lot if we think we don't have any defects of character.
Which defective trait of character does Jesus overlook when He reveals them to us in light of the cross? Which one can we cling to, can we cherish, can we refuse to confess and forsake, without imperiling our soul?

"It is a perilous thing to allow an unchristian trait to live in the heart. One cherished sin will, little by little, debase the character, bringing all its nobler powers into subjection to the evil desire." (PP 452) And, what about this telling testimony? "There is not a stain in the character because God is enthroned in the heart and Christ does not war against Christ." (1 S&T 246) And, the following commentary?

SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

SC 31
If you see your sinfulness, do not wait to make yourself better. How many there are who think they are not good enough to come to Christ. Do you expect to become better through your own efforts? "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil." Jeremiah 13:23. There is help for us only in God. We must not wait for stronger persuasions, for better opportunities, or for holier tempers. We can do nothing of ourselves. We must come to Christ just as we are. {SC 31.1}

SC 32, 33
Beware of procrastination. Do not put off the work of forsaking your sins and seeking purity of heart through Jesus. Here is where thousands upon thousands have erred to their eternal loss. I will not here dwell upon the shortness and uncertainty of life; but there is a terrible danger--a danger not sufficiently understood--in delaying to yield to the pleading voice of God's Holy Spirit, in choosing to live in sin; for such this delay really is. Sin, however small it may be esteemed, can be indulged in only at the peril of infinite loss. What we do not overcome, will overcome us and work out our destruction. {SC 32.2}

SC 34
Christ is ready to set us free from sin, but He does not force the will; and if by persistent transgression the will itself is wholly bent on evil, and we do not desire to be set free, if we will not accept His grace, what more can He do? We have destroyed ourselves by our determined rejection of His love. "Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." "Today if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts." 2 Corinthians 6:2; Hebrews 3:7, 8. {SC 34.2}

[ May 03, 2005, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Mountain Man ]

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13106
05/04/05 12:02 AM
05/04/05 12:02 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
OHC 215
Genuine conversion is needed, not once in years, but daily. This conversion brings man into a new relation with God. Old things, his natural passions and hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong, pass away, and he is renewed and sanctified. But this work must be continual; for as long as Satan exists, he will make an effort to carry on his work. He who strives to serve God will encounter a strong undercurrent of wrong. His heart needs to be barricaded by constant watchfulness and prayer, or else the embankment will give way; and like a millstream, the undercurrent of wrong will sweep away the safeguard. No renewed heart can be kept in a condition of sweetness without the daily application of the salt of the Word. Divine grace must be received daily, or no man will stay converted. {OHC 215.2}

What is the origin and source of this "strong undercurrent of wrong"? Is it sinful character, or is it sinful nature? Does it mean we are still morally defective? Did Jesus have to resist it the same as born again believers? Or, was He somehow immune? Does the following quote shed any light on it?

AH 127, 128
The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it. The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God. We are commanded to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. How shall we do it? Shall we inflict pain on the body? No; but put to death the temptation to sin. The corrupt thought is to be expelled. Every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ. All animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher powers of the soul. The love of God must reign supreme; Christ must occupy an undivided throne. Our bodies are to be regarded as His purchased possession. The members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness. {AH 127.2}

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13107
05/04/05 02:56 AM
05/04/05 02:56 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
People can say they believe all day long...
By "people" do you mean John and Ellen G. White? They were mistaken in saying that John was a believer before Pentecost?

The way the disciples acted around Christ is just the way we act. We miss many lessons if we miss the fact that we are like Christ's disicples.

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13108
05/04/05 03:02 AM
05/04/05 03:02 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Which defective trait of character does Jesus overlook when He reveals them to us in light of the cross?
The ones we can't see.

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13109
05/04/05 12:04 PM
05/04/05 12:04 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Mike,

The first time I experienced suffering after I was born again (in fact it was the first time in all my life), I yielded to self-pity for a long time. At first I felt even justified in cherishing my self-pity. Later I had a notion that it was wrong, but it took me a long time to realize that it was a sin. This may sound silly, but the fact is our mind does not always works as it should.

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13110
05/04/05 12:19 PM
05/04/05 12:19 PM
Ikan  Offline
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
Here are some warnings to written by God's Messenger to "The Brethern", those entering the ministry.
It is one of many similar exhortations I could post, but this should be clear enough for the impartial Bible student. The key is the very last paragraph.

This is not addressed to the unconverted, the spiritually ignorant or the unsaved. And I am not saying that an unsaved pastor does not exist.

If one instantly losses all "defective traits of character" upon the intial salvational conversion, as Mike theorizes, than EGW is seriously adrift in this letter, in my opinion.

(All emphasis amd puncuation are mine)

"The Holy Spirit is to do its work upon mind and character, exerting an influence upon thoughts and actions. If received, cultivated, and appreciated, it will always be reformatory, refining, elevating, and ennobling.

He who always: [not just at his initial conversion]

1.aims for entire conformity to God's will,
2.who does not follow his own natural inclinations,

will allow the Holy Spirit to improve and mold and fashion his character upon a plan and model different from his own inherited and cultivated tendencies, changing him to another man.

The influence of the Spirit upon the human mind will regulate it after the divine order. But the Spirit does not work in a manner and power beyond the human agent's power of resistance. [no "heavenly forcing": no stealing of a man's free will]

A man [this is addressed to a born again man]may refuse to hear the counsels and admonitions of God. He may choose to take the regulating of his conduct into his own hands; but when he does this, he is not made a vessel unto honor.

Like Moab, he refuses to be changed, emptied from vessel to vessel, and therefore his taste remaineth in him, and his scent is not changed. [See Jer. 48:11.] He refuses to correct his defective traits of character although the Lord has plainly pointed out his work, his privileges, his opportunities, and the advancement to be made. It is too much trouble to break up his old ways and transform his ideas and methods. [another definition of "defective traits of character"]

"His scent is not changed." He clings to his defects, and is thus unfitted for the sacred work of the ministry. He was not willing to make a close examination of himself, or to closely inquire for light to shine upon him in a clear, distinct manner. His prayers have not ascended to God in humility, while with humble endeavor he sought to live his prayers by understanding and performing his duty.
After the Lord has put one on test and trial, that he may be assured of his calling to the ministry, if he is content to follow his own way and his own will, if he will not heed the manifestations of the Spirit of God, if he refuses to profit by growth in grace and depth of understanding, be assured that the Lord does not need him, for he cannot communicate that which he has never received. {19MR 24.2}

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13111
05/05/05 02:24 AM
05/05/05 02:24 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Did the thief on the cross experience the miracle of rebirth? Yes, of course. How many unseen, unconfessed, uncrucified defective traits of character did he take with him into the grave? Which ones will Jesus change when He returns and resurrects the thief? So far, this question, which has been posted several times on MSDAOL, has not been addressed.

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13112
05/04/05 03:24 PM
05/04/05 03:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
During the process of conversion, before we are born again, the Holy Spirit reveals to us all of our defective traits of character. If we confess and forsake our defects we are born again, we become new creatures in Christ. Note the following insights:

SC 29
One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. {SC 29.1}

TMK 247
When a soul is truly converted, old habits and natural evil besetments are done away in Christ Jesus and all things become new. {TMK 247.3}

1 S&T 246
There is not a stain in the character because God is enthroned in the heart and Christ does not war against Christ. {1 S&T 246}

No one, not even the thief on the cross, can enter heaven with an unconfessed, uncrucified defective trait of character. Jesus will not change our character when He returns. Note the following insights:

LDE 295
If you would be a saint in heaven you must first be a saint on earth. The traits of character you cherish in life will not be changed by death or by the resurrection. You will come up from the grave with the same disposition you manifested in your home and in society. Jesus does not change the character at His coming. The work of transformation must be done now. Our daily lives are determining our destiny. Defects of character must be repented of and overcome through the grace of Christ, and a symmetrical character must be formed while in this probationary state, that we may be fitted for the mansions above.--13MR 82 (1891). {LDE 295.1}

FE 279
There is really no place in heaven for these dispositions. A man with such a character will only make heaven miserable, because he himself is miserable. "Except ye be born again," said Christ, "ye cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." To enter heaven, a man must have Christ formed within, the hope of glory, and take heaven with him. The Lord Jesus alone can fashion and change the character. For want of patience, kindness, forbearance, unselfishness, and love, the revealings of the traits flash forth involuntarily when off guard, and unchristian words, unchristlikeness of character burst forth sometimes to the ruin of the soul. {FE 279.1}

SD 9
We are not to settle down, expecting that a change of character will come to us by some miraculous work, when Jesus shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. No, my young friends, we are judgment-bound, and probation is granted to us here in this life, in order that we may form characters for the future, immortal life. {SD 9.2}

Born again believers are the last to feel that they are “righteousness, even as he is righteous.” In fact, the more they become like Jesus less they feel like it, but this does not mean they possess defective traits of character. Note the following insights:

2MCP 727
"He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked" (1 John 2:6). "Now if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of His" (Romans 8:9). This conformity to Jesus will not be unobserved by the world. It is a subject of notice and comment. The Christian may not be conscious of the great change, for the more closely he resembles Christ in character, the more humble will be his opinion of himself; but it will be seen and felt by all around him. {2MCP 727.3}

ML 196
We must educate the soul to be pitiful, gentle, tender, full of forgiveness and compassion. While we lay aside all vanity, all foolish talking, jesting, and joking, we are not to become cold, unsympathetic, and unsocial. The Spirit of the Lord is to rest upon you until you shall be like a fragrant flower from the garden of God. You are to keep talking of the light, of Jesus, the Sun of Righteousness, until you shall change from glory to glory, from character to character, going on from strength to strength, and reflecting more and more of the precious image of Jesus. {ML 196.5}

People who refuse to confess and forsake their defective traits of character do so to their own ruin. There is no excuse for retaining defects of character. Jesus reveals all of our defects, and if we refuse to forsake even one defect it will work our eternal ruin. Note the following insights:

TMK 247
Many fail to recognize the claims that God has upon them. They profess to be sons and daughters of God, but they do not behave as children of God. They argue that their evil habits and customs which they followed when they served under the black banner of the prince of darkness must be excused on the ground of their weakness, while they claim that "it is their way." . . . Their objectionable hereditary traits of character they choose to retain as idols. {TMK 247.2}

When a soul is truly converted, old habits and natural evil besetments are done away in Christ Jesus and all things become new.... {TMK 247.3}

Will you who read these words resolve that you will never again seek to excuse your defects of character by saying, "It is my way"? Let no one declare, "I cannot change my natural habits and tendencies." The truth must be admitted into the soul, and it will work the sanctification of the character. It will refine and elevate the life, and fit you for an entrance into the mansions which Jesus has gone to prepare for those who love Him. {TMK 247.5}

DA 490
Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have been in error, but from the fact that we have neglected heaven-sent opportunities for learning what is truth. {DA 489.5}

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13113
05/04/05 08:12 PM
05/04/05 08:12 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
How many unseen, unconfessed, uncrucified defective traits of character did he take with him into the grave?
All the ones he wasn't aware of.

Re: No Temptation Too Difficult To Resist! - What? Help! #13114
05/05/05 01:57 PM
05/05/05 01:57 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
And, will Jesus change them, or remove them, when He returns?

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