Baby steps NJK & it's your call.

Cephalopod,
I agree with NJK on his point where you are putting words in to his mouth, I have seen you do this on different topics, and it's already rubbing me the wrong way.
Manipulation is something I take very seriously and I am not really looking forward to any cliche' rhetorics, if you cant discuss something without putting words into people's mouths and twisting things, then just take the road less traveled and either say "I have no response" or just don't reply at all.
Its pretty simple, and takes a God fearing man to lead by example.
First and last warning, next I will just lock up this topic.
God Bless,
Will

Dear Rick H,

You can find this Post on page 1, #130589, dated 2 February 2011.

i have been fortunate to read this through. This Topic has been a problem in the experience of many Believers, including myself, as in the 1950's it re-emerged as Close of Probation or The Unpardonable Sin.

However Rick H's very clear exposition of the History and the logical reason for the beginning of this belief, gives me a starting point for a small search of historical sources.

i am reassured that since the 1950's (about the time of the Coronation of the present Queen Elizabeth of England) i have not heard this doctrine preached from the pulpit. And let me assure you i have never heard "Shut door" preached at all.

But as a nine year old i did hear Close of Probation and Unpardonable sin excercised in long arguments between my fore-bears. Died in the wool Believers, who joined the Church in the 1890's.

And as a bee-keeper, in the 1990's i listened to two faithful Sabbath keepers, who manufactured my bee-boxes, try to teach me from well worn copies of Ellen G White, that we were all lost, and nothing we could do to be saved. Which is an extension of the Un-Pardonable Sin argument. They fed me beautiful fresh fruit, as they were both avid Health followers of standard Church teachings, but both seemed to believe they were eternally lost. And wanted me to believe i was lost too. Can someone explain this abberration to me? Please.

As expressed in this Post i find the Introduction of this discussion factual and helpful. Giving me an opportunity of happiness that the church feels secure enough to no longer feel the need to preach it, but today allows all who come to Jesus, free opportunity to repent of our sins and find full forgiveness kneeling at Jesus feet.

Thank you for this excellent Post.

God bless,

johannes.

That's generally what happens when there is not a solid apologetic to refute the other's position...
...The topic gets locked.

I've made my case well enough and answered the question as to why the reason given for 1844 was only half the answer...
...It's no shock that many would rather pound their head into the sand on this issue.
...It makes them face their actual faith or lack thereof.
...And many simply prefer to not do that.

Thanks for the warning, I appreciate it Will.....
...Perhaps another member will show where my view is wrong.
...By dealing directly with my points.

Page 4 of this thread and post #130896 is where the discussion was actually moving...
...Anyone that can read can see what happened shortly after that.
..Those points prove what I was saying and one will either have to face their faith or realize they have someone elses faith.

Cephalopod,
We are all entitled to believe what we want to believe, and we all need to be convinced in our own mind.
THe way a message is presented also makes a difference. Personally I am not in the mood or have the time to go and explain where your view is wrong if indeed it is wrong, do you know what I mean?
Lets not take our eyes off of Christ especially in these scary times where the stage is set for the final scene.

I personally can't stand when people tell me EGW is this, and you better believe that, BUT when I read EGW's writings for example COL, I really understand things and what she was saying vs someone explaining their interpretation of what she said.
All we can do is prove all things and take that which is good.

God Bless,
Will

That's honest, thank you Will. I find it horrific at what has happened over the years since Sister White went to sleep...
...The things going on in our schools especially - this is the future of our Church we are talking about.



Satan like sports and urges his children to participate in such heathen activities....
...Sister White was given detailed instructions into this evil species.
...And goes on to say that angels disapprove of such idol worship.

Yet today most of our schools have all types of sports and stress that the kids 'join in'...
...It's this sort of stuff that makes me wonder why others can't see what's been going on.
...We have the proof in front of us - can we now pick and choose what to accept that God revealed to us via Sister White?

Hello Will,

i like to approach the Bible each day, to see if God has a message for my heart. i need an heart of flesh so God can write His commandments there. [Ezek 11:16 to end of chapter, which also includes Ezekiel being given a vision of God, to comfort the scattered Israelites of the captivity.] God has promised to be a little Sanctuary for us.

The church now has the Fundamentals, which i believe are a good basis or framework for study. i know a retired Pastor who introduces them one by one when introducing a new interest to the Truth.

Generally if someone gives me a text as a proof for some point i like to read the whole chapter, to get the sense. Personal views i think are for the person who has them. i do not have to convince anyone else. But i think it is OK to share. But i agree with you Will, it is pretty pointless insisting any-one must agree with any one Believer's view. Particularly as Holy Writ is interpreted only after reverent prayer.

Other people's views are of interest, but i need to be saved. In a sense we are in a captivity and are scattered, [as in the story of Ezekiel] for who knows we should have been in the Kingdom before this. For Jesus might have come before had we been more diligent in telling the glad news.

God bless,

johannes.

I know what you mean Cephalopod the world is upside down, and I keep thinking about 2 verses:
1: The love of many will wax cold
2: All of creation groans

We have those 2 conditions at the very minimum existing today, and I feel frightened every day at what is going on around me, but am comforted knowing these things must happen before Christ comes

I know what you mean about sports, at least taking it all the way and being hardcore about it as it is pretty much idolatry.
Playing ball with your friends is a bit different

God Bless,
Will

Hi Johannes,
Recently, well maybe not so recently but for a while now I ask God to just feed me spiritually, and that I may know more about Him cause I want to be closer to Him and share with my son His love through Jesus Christ.
I do have a couple of topics I do love to read about especially the Sanctuary Services and how it represented Jesus Christ, and the throne in heaven believe it or not. Its one of my favorite things to study when I have time.Other wise I read to my son a chapter a night from the book of John, and that is a challenge in itself as he is so eager to turn the pages hahaha



I think it's great to share cause we never know what someone may get from what was shared with them. The seed is planted and needs to take root, and it may be a while until it starts to grow.

Thats a good analogy of being scattered and in captivity, never thought of it that way, and the verse in Romans I think that mentions that what happened to the Israelites should serve as an example to us.

God Bless,
Will