Oops! Sorry about that, John. Well, one of the most obvious things in the Bible, especially in the OT, is death and destruction. God, that is, Jesus, is often angry and pouring out His wrath or threatening to pour out His wrath. For example, the list of cursings is way longer than the list of blessings in Deuteronomy chapter 28 (12 verses to 54 verses). Yikes!

Since this sort of thing is a major part of the Bible, the predominate picture of God, it makes sense to reconcile it with the fact - God is love. In the heart of His law, the only part of the Bible He wrote with His own finger (with fire on stone), God said, "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Ex 20:5,6.

There it is, love and hate, smack dab in the middle of God's law. It's unavoidable. Good and evil is a part of the world we live in and the life we live. The wrath of God used to bug me. I can remember sitting in Bible class at academy and thinking, Man, God sucks! All that killing and stuff seemed so out of character. And, nearly every page mentions something about it. Instead of trying to understand it, I turned my back on God.

Eventually, though, I came back to Him - and it. I was determined to make sense out of all the non-sense. Finally, I read Maxwell's book, Can God be Tusted, and that changed everything for me. I also listened to his series on tape, Through the Bible in a Year. Now I see God as someone who is willing to do whatever it takes, shout, scream, shake, spank, etc., to get our attention long enough so that He can speak to us in that still small voice, so full of hope and melody.

By beholding the wrath of the Lamb, I came to know God better than I ever would have known Him without it. I do not fault or blame God for the terrible and dreadful things He was forced to do in order to motivate us to listen to Him, to obey Him, to love Him. As a parent myself, I can relate, albeit in a very limited way, to how He must have felt having to do all those things to the children He loves so much that He gave His only begotten Son to live and die for us.

Mike, this last post of yours was excellent. (I'm not thinking primarily in terms of the content, as my point is not that it is excellent because it is presenting views with which I agree. I would have made the same comment even if I completely disagreed with what you wrote.) Please post more like this! You laid out in very clear terms what you are thinking and why. A lot of times I feel it's like trying to pull teeth to figure out where you are coming from, as you will post (what appears to me) to be a cryptic remark followed by tons of SOP and Biblical references which I can't see how they address the point you are wanting to make.

I think there's truth in what you presented. God will do whatever is necessary in order to get our attention and will often use "emergency measures."

Tom, if you can read the Bible and the SOP description of the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah and walk away wondering if God did it or if Satan did it, then I guess you are uncertain. Sorry for assuming you already have it figured out. What is it about the inspired account that leaves you questioning whether God did it or Satan did it? It is so obvious to me, my family, my kids, and everybody else I know personally.

Since the NT cites the water and fire that destroyed millions of OT people to explain what the final judgment will be like, it make sense to study it thoroughly, don't you agree? Setting it aside because you cannot discern who caused them doesn't help you understand the 7 last plagues or the lake of fire. Getting it straight in your mind, I would think, would be a priority, at least at some point in your studies.

Regarding the questions you referred to, would you please do me a favor and post them again? Thank you.

Tom, thank you for the encouragement. I will try and do a better job posting from now on.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

According to scripture the revelation of God in Christ during the time of his sojourn here on earth is “the brightness of his glory and the express image of his person” and it should be considered as the perspective for all things rather than placing it in perspective of the lesser; for the prophets longed to see his day.

Mike, according to your post above you are not beholding the lamb but beholding all atrocities and then putting the lamb into them.

Mike, is it your contention that God did the things which happened to Job? (e.g. using Satan as an instrument)

Tom and Mike,

I've tried to compile some passages, both of the Bible and of the SOP, which I consider pertinent to this study.

Although God's retribution for sin often happens at His permission, they many times happen by His direct action or at His command. It is impossible to evade this fact. We could try to attribute episodes like the flood and Sodoma and Gomorrah to the devil, but what is the use of this if we can’t ascribe to the devil God’s commands for His people to kill? The point is that it is incoherent to believe that God can’t take life but can command His people to do so.

Let’s analyze some examples:

1) The episode of the golden calf.

"'Thus says the LORD God of Israel: Each man put his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and kill each one his brother, and each one his neighbor, and each one his kindred.' And the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And there fell of the people that day about three thousand men" (Ex. 32:27,28).

2) The episode of Baal-Peor:

"And Israel joined himself to Baal-peor. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, so that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said to the judges of Israel, Every one of you kill his men who were joined to Baal-peor" (Numb. 25:3-5).

3)The destruction of the inhabitants of Canaan.

"When the LORD your God shall bring you into the land where you go to possess it, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and the LORD your God shall deliver them before you, you shall crush them, completely destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them" (Deut. 7:1,2).

4) The death penalty under the old covenant. Let’s take one example, Deut. 21:18-21.

"If a man has a son who is stubborn and rebels, who will not obey his fathers voice or his mothers voice, even when they have chastened him he will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall lay hold on him and bring him out to the elders of his city, and to the gate of his place. And they shall say to the elders of his city, this son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey our voice. He is a glutton and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones so that he dies. So shall you put evil away from you, and all Israel shall hear and fear."

What is the explanation for the above passages?

1) The episode of the golden calf.

"Though God had granted the prayer of Moses in sparing Israel from destruction, their apostasy was to be signally punished. The lawlessness and insubordination into which Aaron had permitted them to fall, if not speedily crushed, would run riot in wickedness, and would involve the nation in irretrievable ruin. By terrible severity the evil must be put away. ... Moses now commanded those upon his right hand, who had kept themselves clear of idolatry, to gird on their swords and slay all who persisted in rebellion. 'And there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.' Without regard to position, kindred, or friendship, the ringleaders in wickedness were cut off; but all who repented and humbled themselves were spared. Those who performed this terrible work of judgment were acting by divine authority, executing the sentence of the King of heaven. Men are to beware how they, in their human blindness, judge and condemn their fellow men; but when God commands them to execute His sentence upon iniquity, He is to be obeyed. Those who performed this painful act, thus manifested their abhorrence of rebellion and idolatry, and consecrated themselves more fully to the service of the true God. The Lord honored their faithfulness by bestowing special distinction upon the tribe of Levi." {PP 324}

2) The episode of Baal-peor.

"'And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor; and the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor.' Moses commanded the judges of the people to execute the punishment of God against those who had transgressed, and hang the heads of the transgressors up before the Lord, to cause Israel to fear to follow their example. The Lord commanded Moses to vex the Midianites, and smite them, because they had vexed Israel with their wiles, wherewith they had beguiled them to transgress the commandments of God." {1SP 327}

3) The command to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan.

“It is one of the greatest deceptions that can come upon the mind to imagine ourselves more merciful or just than God. ... Had the Lord spared the inhabitants of Canaan, the Israelites would have been in constant danger of contamination. ...Hence the repeated command addressed to them, to dispossess the Canaanites, by every means in their power, and as fast as they were able to subdue them. The Israelites were not to yield to cowardice, sloth, or self-indulgence, nor to set up their ideas of clemency in opposition to the command of God. ...God knew the dangers to which his people would be exposed. Satan would work through those corrupt idolaters to destroy Israel. ... The apparent severity of God's dealings with the Canaanites did not, as many suppose, proceed from harshness or cruelty. The love of God is beyond our comprehension; it is high as the heavens, and broad as the universe. Every soul whom he has created is precious in his sight,-- so precious that he gave his only begotten Son to die for that lost, perishing sinner. When men shall manifest toward their fellow-creatures a love superior to this, then they may talk of compassion where God has exercised severity.” {ST, January 13, 1881}

4)The death penalty commanded by God in Israel’s theocracy.

"So offensive was this sin [gluttony] in the sight of God that He gave directions to Moses that a child who would not be restrained on the point of appetite, but would gorge himself with anything his taste might crave, should be brought by his parents before the rulers of Israel, and should be stoned to death. The condition of the glutton was considered hopeless. He would be of no use to others, and was a curse to himself. No dependence could be placed upon him in anything. His influence would be ever contaminating others, and the world would be better without such a character; for his terrible defects would be perpetuated.” {CD 133.2}

God is not invested with Satan's attributes. He simply uses of severity with incorrigible, incurable sinners, so that He may save those who can be saved. This happened in the case of the antediluvians, of the sodomites, of the canaanites, of the israelites, and it will happen at the final judgment.

“Like the waters of the flood, the fires of the great day declare God's verdict that the wicked are incurable. They have no disposition to submit to divine authority. ... In mercy to the world, God blotted out its wicked inhabitants in Noah's time. In mercy he destroyed the corrupt dwellers in Sodom. Through the deceptive power of Satan, the workers of iniquity obtain sympathy and admiration, and are thus constantly leading others to rebellion. It was so in Cain's and in Noah's day, and in the time of Abraham and Lot; it is so in our time. It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of his grace. {GC88 543, 544}

Tom, yes, Satan was doing nothing more than God permitted. God was in control. Like the man born blind, it was God's will that Job be tested, not because God questioned Job's loyalty, but because He wanted to showcase his loyalty. Behold the Lamb! The Lamb restored in the heart of Job. Faithfulness during test, trial and temptation reveals the love of God, "shed abroad in our hearts", like nothing else can. That's the whole purpose behind God causing or allowing trouble and tragedy to befall us. "We are His witnesses" IF and WHEN we are faithful!

Rosangela, excellent work. Thank you. As you know, I totally agree with your findings and conclusions. I'm just glad, and thankful, that Jesus is in control, and not Satan.