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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133019
04/28/11 01:39 PM
04/28/11 01:39 PM
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Banned Member
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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(actually “indifferently”) continue to seek to impinge me with ‘having a violent/force view, and for, God’. LOL!)
Could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? I thought this was made clear in the discussions with Tom, (at least from what he “noticed/recalled” to respond to): -Since I first posted it, my “War in Heaven” blog post Theological View; -The Inevitable Ten Plague, retributive Judgement -The 2 Clearing/Cleansings of the Temple by Jesus; -The “days” even “age” lasting of the wicked in Hell’s Fire; -God wanting to punish Israel for their sins and thus acting to send a swarm of venomous serpents to immediately, and at a large scale, achieve that punishment; -Christ’s Great Wish in Luke 12:49; -Christ’s Ministry-wide designings against the Jewish leaders (cf. Matt 13:10-17 = Isa 6:9-13); etc.
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: NJK Project]
#133030
04/28/11 08:13 PM
04/28/11 08:13 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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You’re the one who chose to unbelievingly, extraneous parenthetical, truncate my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’.
I wish there was a way to make notes on these forums. I'll try to remember, but MM wants the whole quote quoted rather than the relevant portion and now it looks like you do to. So for MM and NJK: kland: No, I am not familiar with the Bibleworks interface. Why did you assume I was? I went back and read what you wrote and maybe your verbosity, with which you seem to have no issue in reducing the amount of time spent doing it, and making it harder for others to read and comprehend what you are saying (much like this statement with phrases within phrases), got in the way from you saying you copy and paste in a different way than normal people do. Why, I still do not know. What is so unusual of this interface which makes it so cumbersome to use?
NJK: -“If” is for a conditional statement, and not a ‘believed assumption.’ I certainly, for manifested reasons, do not see a need to presume that you are experientially familiar with Bibleworks, the leading exegetical Biblical software resource.
-For the sake of my time I’ll skip detailing what is involved in copying from Bibleworks, especially as this here will not make difference in my opting not to include texts or not.
I understand conditional sentences. Except I was referring to your previous statement, or lack thereof, of your assumption that I was familiar with it. Now that you have confirmed that I am indeed not familiar with it, why do you not explain why this software is so much harder to use. It would save you precious time from having to read yet another request for the same thing. Instead, you come across as puffed up. With nothing more to go on, I suspect you need to take a computer course on how to copy and paste. And after such an elaborate intervention for kland’s view which he did not bother to defend, what makes you think that your right. Perhaps kland realized that it was a moot point following my provided exegetical element.
Perhaps kland had no comprehension, and certainly saw no sign of exegetical, of what you were talking about and figured it was another tactic to blow him off since he had made a good point and you had nothing with which to object to it. You’re the one who chose to unbelievingly (as if I am so defeated by you that I need to lie to you, LOL) truncate my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’. Hence my: “If you’re familiar...” (or it should have been: ‘If you were familiar...’). And if making this request so bothers you, then don’t ask it again. Like I said, it won’t change anything. (And... and I can’t believe I am even remotely honoring this ignorant statement of yours, a “course in copy/pasting” won’t help. In fact the more formal way of copying a pasting in Bibleworkis more time consuming, and is actually better for the copying of large amounts of varying texts and/or from various Bible versions.) By the way, I actually don’t see that ‘you had made a good point.’ Most of them are irrational and illogical to me, particular as they are usually hypothetical and that based on false realities. So that assumption of yours here is only your personal esteem of your statements. Now everyone else can join in: my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’.
I wasn't asking what the steps were as you explained how cumbersome it was. I was asking, why? Why isn't it normal? If it isn't normal, maybe it's not so great of software. But seriously, I would be surprised that you can't do a normal copy and paste. Have you tried? I would have hoped so. Is it a Windows program and are you using Windows?
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: NJK Project]
#133031
04/28/11 08:17 PM
04/28/11 08:17 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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(actually “indifferently”) continue to seek to impinge me with ‘having a violent/force view, and for, God’. LOL!)
Could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? I thought this was made clear in the discussions with Tom, (at least from what he “noticed/recalled” to respond to): -Since I first posted it, my “War in Heaven” blog post Theological View; -The Inevitable Ten Plague, retributive Judgement -The 2 Clearing/Cleansings of the Temple by Jesus; -The “days” even “age” lasting of the wicked in Hell’s Fire; -God wanting to punish Israel for their sins and thus acting to send a swarm of venomous serpents to immediately, and at a large scale, achieve that punishment; -Christ’s Great Wish in Luke 12:49; -Christ’s Ministry-wide designings against the Jewish leaders (cf. Matt 13:10-17 = Isa 6:9-13); etc. So do you or not have a violent/force view, and for, God? Because I thought that was what he was saying you had of God. If you don't believe your view is a violent/force view, then could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God?
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133033
04/28/11 08:38 PM
04/28/11 08:38 PM
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Banned Member
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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You’re the one who chose to unbelievingly, extraneous parenthetical, truncate my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’.
I wish there was a way to make notes on these forums. I'll try to remember, but MM wants the whole quote quoted rather than the relevant portion and now it looks like you do to. So for MM and NJK: kland: No, I am not familiar with the Bibleworks interface. Why did you assume I was? I went back and read what you wrote and maybe your verbosity, with which you seem to have no issue in reducing the amount of time spent doing it, and making it harder for others to read and comprehend what you are saying (much like this statement with phrases within phrases), got in the way from you saying you copy and paste in a different way than normal people do. Why, I still do not know. What is so unusual of this interface which makes it so cumbersome to use?
NJK: -“If” is for a conditional statement, and not a ‘believed assumption.’ I certainly, for manifested reasons, do not see a need to presume that you are experientially familiar with Bibleworks, the leading exegetical Biblical software resource.
-For the sake of my time I’ll skip detailing what is involved in copying from Bibleworks, especially as this here will not make difference in my opting not to include texts or not.
I understand conditional sentences. Except I was referring to your previous statement, or lack thereof, of your assumption that I was familiar with it. Now that you have confirmed that I am indeed not familiar with it, why do you not explain why this software is so much harder to use. It would save you precious time from having to read yet another request for the same thing. Instead, you come across as puffed up. With nothing more to go on, I suspect you need to take a computer course on how to copy and paste. And after such an elaborate intervention for kland’s view which he did not bother to defend, what makes you think that your right. Perhaps kland realized that it was a moot point following my provided exegetical element.
Perhaps kland had no comprehension, and certainly saw no sign of exegetical, of what you were talking about and figured it was another tactic to blow him off since he had made a good point and you had nothing with which to object to it. You’re the one who chose to unbelievingly (as if I am so defeated by you that I need to lie to you, LOL) truncate my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’. Hence my: “If you’re familiar...” (or it should have been: ‘If you were familiar...’). And if making this request so bothers you, then don’t ask it again. Like I said, it won’t change anything. (And... and I can’t believe I am even remotely honoring this ignorant statement of yours, a “course in copy/pasting” won’t help. In fact the more formal way of copying a pasting in Bibleworkis more time consuming, and is actually better for the copying of large amounts of varying texts and/or from various Bible versions.) By the way, I actually don’t see that ‘you had made a good point.’ Most of them are irrational and illogical to me, particular as they are usually hypothetical and that based on false realities. So that assumption of yours here is only your personal esteem of your statements. Now everyone else can join in: my explanation of the steps involved to simply ‘copy and paste’.
I wasn't asking what the steps were as you explained how cumbersome it was. I was asking, why? Why isn't it normal? If it isn't normal, maybe it's not so great of software. But seriously, I would be surprised that you can't do a normal copy and paste. Have you tried? I would have hoped so. Is it a Windows program and are you using Windows? (Factually spurious justifying attempt (backtrack to initial post), and a waste of my time.)
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133034
04/28/11 08:42 PM
04/28/11 08:42 PM
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Banned Member
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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(actually “indifferently”) continue to seek to impinge me with ‘having a violent/force view, and for, God’. LOL!)
Could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? I thought this was made clear in the discussions with Tom, (at least from what he “noticed/recalled” to respond to): -Since I first posted it, my “War in Heaven” blog post Theological View; -The Inevitable Ten Plague, retributive Judgement -The 2 Clearing/Cleansings of the Temple by Jesus; -The “days” even “age” lasting of the wicked in Hell’s Fire; -God wanting to punish Israel for their sins and thus acting to send a swarm of venomous serpents to immediately, and at a large scale, achieve that punishment; -Christ’s Great Wish in Luke 12:49; -Christ’s Ministry-wide designings against the Jewish leaders (cf. Matt 13:10-17 = Isa 6:9-13); etc. So do you or not have a violent/force view, and for, God? Because I thought that was what he was saying you had of God. If you don't believe your view is a violent/force view, then could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? In the sense that God uses force (“violence”) to compel people to obey him “NO” In the sense that God uses force (“violence”) to effectuate a judgement/punishment, (as in my examples cited) which itself is fully deserved and just then “Yes”. In Tom’s view, God can’t do such judgement acts in any way as that would be “evil”. Ironically enough, it is actually only “evil” (not in regards to God as actually He never has been required to curtail His '"passion" for truth' in order to be merciful towards sinners) when God just lets Satan freely and fully have his way. I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force (i.e., by a freewill violating decree) people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement. Their own waywardness brought that judgement upon them. Satan however tries to make it seem that the people who are suffering have done nothing to deserve this and this is just an unjust act of God. However I don’t see this to mean that God will never work/design to have that distinctly deserved punishment to come to pass, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control that Satan could act wantonly and of course unmercifully and therein cause these people to receive specific undeserved punishments. Indeed EGW’s “forging your fetters” implying ‘making yourself remain in jail for a wrong more than you should have’ and also “filling the cup of vengeance’ involves/implies this cup (God’s cup Jer 25:15; Rev 14:10; cf. 16:19) had always been there and the wine in it is actually the wrong doer’s own deserved concoction. So God does not have to invent an irrelevant method of punishment. Even in e.g, the Sodom and Gomorrah destruction, it was a type of people “burning in their (fleshly) desire” (Rom 1:27) and thus reaping what the full effect of that behavior when God will cast all sinners in Hell Fire who could, at a certain point, also be naturally self-combustedly destroyed by just His Presence.
Last edited by NJK Project; 04/28/11 09:06 PM.
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: NJK Project]
#133040
04/29/11 02:00 PM
04/29/11 02:00 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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[quote=kland] (actually “indifferently”) continue to seek to impinge me with ‘having a violent/force view, and for, God’. LOL!)
Could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? I thought this was made clear in the discussions with Tom, (at least from what he “noticed/recalled” to respond to): -Since I first posted it, my “War in Heaven” blog post Theological View; -The Inevitable Ten Plague, retributive Judgement -The 2 Clearing/Cleansings of the Temple by Jesus; -The “days” even “age” lasting of the wicked in Hell’s Fire; -God wanting to punish Israel for their sins and thus acting to send a swarm of venomous serpents to immediately, and at a large scale, achieve that punishment; -Christ’s Great Wish in Luke 12:49; -Christ’s Ministry-wide designings against the Jewish leaders (cf. Matt 13:10-17 = Isa 6:9-13); etc. So do you or not have a violent/force view, and for, God? Because I thought that was what he was saying you had of God. If you don't believe your view is a violent/force view, then could you give an example of a view that would be a violent/force view, and for, God? In the sense that God uses force (“violence”) to compel people to obey him “NO” In the sense that God uses force (“violence”) to effectuate a judgement/punishment, (as in my examples cited) which itself is fully deserved and just then “Yes”. In Tom’s view, God can’t do such judgement acts in any way as that would be “evil”. Ironically enough, it is actually only “evil” (not in regards to God as actually He never has been required to curtail His '"passion" for truth' in order to be merciful towards sinners) when God just lets Satan freely and fully have his way. I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force (i.e., by a freewill violating decree) people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement. Their own waywardness brought that judgement upon them. Satan however tries to make it seem that the people who are suffering have done nothing to deserve this and this is just an unjust act of God. However I don’t see this to mean that God will never work/design to have that distinctly deserved punishment to come to pass, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control that Satan could act wantonly and of course unmercifully and therein cause these people to receive specific undeserved punishments. Indeed EGW’s “forging your fetters” implying ‘making yourself remain in jail for a wrong more than you should have’ and also “filling the cup of vengeance’ involves/implies this cup (God’s cup Jer 25:15; Rev 14:10; cf. 16:19) had always been there and the wine in it is actually the wrong doer’s own deserved concoction. So God does not have to invent an irrelevant method of punishment. Even in e.g, the Sodom and Gomorrah destruction, it was a type of people “burning in their (fleshly) desire” (Rom 1:27) and thus reaping what the full effect of that behavior when God will cast all sinners in Hell Fire who could, at a certain point, also be naturally self-combustedly destroyed by just His Presence. [/quote] I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force...people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement.
, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control
How do you see this different than what Tom has been saying?
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133041
04/29/11 02:01 PM
04/29/11 02:01 PM
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OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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M: Also, do you think the father teaching his son how to hunt humanely is the same thing as Jesus commanding Moses to stone to death the Sabbath-breaker and the blasphemer? Is hunting animals and killing humans equal in the eyes of God? Did the father command his son to hunt humanely?
K: Why do you think that is what Tom is comparing? What did Tom say? Please include the entire exchange. Thank you.
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133043
04/29/11 03:55 PM
04/29/11 03:55 PM
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Banned Member
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force...people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement.
, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control How do you see this different than what Tom has been saying? For all of the reasons that you spuriously selectively left out in your shoddy quoting!!? Rather than arbitrarily and uniformedly leaving out texts which distort my statement, why don’t you just quote the whole thing and highlight the text that you want to have considered however leaving them in their defining context. Indeed your editing really has no beneficial worthwhileness other than revealing your actual attitude here. * And even if you don’t agree with and/or want to accept my, even parenthetically, supplied explanation it does not give you the discretionary authority to excise/correct them to have your own version of reality. *Indeed you are really something else kland. And your manifest utter obliviousness to this really is even moreoverly “taking the cake”. I perceive and inherent, default and fundamental rebelliousness to anything that claims to be authoritative above humanistic reasoning. At the very least, do allow other people, or at least me to speak for myself and according to my view. With those methods of yours it is really hard for me to figure out if your being sincere and honest in your objections and question, or actually just vexatiously, impishly mischievous, and thus if it is even worthwhile to take you seriously. So after re-reading all that I had collectively said in regards to this issue, if you then have a valid and realistic objection vs. your spuriously manufactured ones, them I’ll respond to it. (And what’s with the “Yikes my eyes” quip, let alone the calculated push-bottom gimmick??? Is it referring to content or format. Why not simply and straightforwardly say so rather than make these ambiguously vacuous statements.?!!)
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: NJK Project]
#133046
04/29/11 07:51 PM
04/29/11 07:51 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force...people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement.
, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control How do you see this different than what Tom has been saying? For all of the reasons that you spuriously selectively left out in your shoddy quoting!!? Rather than arbitrarily and uniformedly leaving out texts which distort my statement, why don’t you just quote the whole thing and highlight the text that you want to have considered however leaving them in their defining context. Indeed your editing really has no beneficial worthwhileness other than revealing your actual attitude here. * And even if you don’t agree with and/or want to accept my, even parenthetically, supplied explanation it does not give you the discretionary authority to excise/correct them to have your own version of reality. *Indeed you are really something else kland. And your manifest utter obliviousness to this really is even moreoverly “taking the cake”. I perceive and inherent, default and fundamental rebelliousness to anything that claims to be authoritative above humanistic reasoning. At the very least, do allow other people, or at least me to speak for myself and according to my view. With those methods of yours it is really hard for me to figure out if your being sincere and honest in your objections and question, or actually just vexatiously, impishly mischievous, and thus if it is even worthwhile to take you seriously. So after re-reading all that I had collectively said in regards to this issue, if you then have a valid and realistic objection vs. your spuriously manufactured ones, them I’ll respond to it. (And what’s with the “Yikes my eyes” quip, let alone the calculated push-bottom gimmick??? Is it referring to content or format. Why not simply and straightforwardly say so rather than make these ambiguously vacuous statements.?!!) [/quote] spuriously selectively left out in your shoddy quoting
I don't believe I left out anything. What did I leave out?
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Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?
[Re: kland]
#133049
04/29/11 09:45 PM
04/29/11 09:45 PM
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Banned Member
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
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I understand EGW statement in GC 35.3 to mean that God does not force...people who otherwise would not, experience a judgement.
, even if it is by simply withdrawing his protection. So it is again when he allows Satan to have full control How do you see this different than what Tom has been saying? For all of the reasons that you spuriously selectively left out in your shoddy quoting!!? Rather than arbitrarily and uniformedly leaving out texts which distort my statement, why don’t you just quote the whole thing and highlight the text that you want to have considered however leaving them in their defining context. Indeed your editing really has no beneficial worthwhileness other than revealing your actual attitude here. * And even if you don’t agree with and/or want to accept my, even parenthetically, supplied explanation it does not give you the discretionary authority to excise/correct them to have your own version of reality. *Indeed you are really something else kland. And your manifest utter obliviousness to this really is even moreoverly “taking the cake”. I perceive and inherent, default and fundamental rebelliousness to anything that claims to be authoritative above humanistic reasoning. At the very least, do allow other people, or at least me to speak for myself and according to my view. With those methods of yours it is really hard for me to figure out if your being sincere and honest in your objections and question, or actually just vexatiously, impishly mischievous, and thus if it is even worthwhile to take you seriously. So after re-reading all that I had collectively said in regards to this issue, if you then have a valid and realistic objection vs. your spuriously manufactured ones, them I’ll respond to it. (And what’s with the “Yikes my eyes” quip, let alone the calculated push-bottom gimmick??? Is it referring to content or format. Why not simply and straightforwardly say so rather than make these ambiguously vacuous statements.?!!) spuriously selectively left out in your shoddy quoting
I don't believe I left out anything. What did I leave out? Seriously kland... ‘you didn’t leave out anything in your quoting’????
“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
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