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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13299
05/10/05 12:04 PM
05/10/05 12:04 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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quote:
The wicked suffer in proportion to how well they knew the truth. The more truth they knew, the more painful beholding the lamb will be.
Of course the punishment will be proportional to the light received, but the duration of their punishment will be decided at the judgment during the millennium, characterizing an imposed punishment.
quote:
The corporate forensic justification of Christ comes into play in this life.
What is this corporate forensic justification and what is its purpose?
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13300
05/10/05 10:03 PM
05/10/05 10:03 PM
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The title of this topic is Behold the Lamb.
In what way are you all actually beholding the Lamb in this topic?
In other words, what is your focus on beholding the Lamb in this topic?
As a Saviour, as a Judge, as a wrathful God, or all of these?
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13301
05/13/05 01:08 AM
05/13/05 01:08 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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When I think of beholding the lamb, I think of him as Savior and Judge.
This in context of him who said it:
Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13302
05/14/05 10:39 PM
05/14/05 10:39 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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When I "Behold the Lamb", I also see that he came to dispel the image of a "wrathful God".
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13303
05/15/05 12:14 AM
05/15/05 12:14 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Psalm 18 says:
25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; 26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
This illustrates the principle that our own character impacts how we perceive God. If we are merciful, we will perceive Him as merciful. If we are froward (crooked) we will perceive Him in as froward.
We see many examples of this in the threads here. We are all looking at the same evidence (Bible and Spirit of Prophesy), yet we see totally different things. What is the wrath of God? What is the atonement? Very different pictures of God emerge from the posts written on this subject.
When John was in heaven, he was told noone could open the scroll except for the Lion from the tribe of Judah. He looked and looked and couldn't find a lion. He finally saw a lamb. Aha! That's who they were talking about! It's not a lion, but a lamb.
This is one of my favorite depictions in Scripture. John's perception of Christ was a lamb slain whereas those speaking to him saw Him as a lion. This is an example of the principle that our character and experience shape our perception of God's character.
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13304
05/15/05 02:54 AM
05/15/05 02:54 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Old Tom: The wicked suffer in proportion to how well they knew the truth. The more truth they knew, the more painful beholding the lamb will be. R: Of course the punishment will be proportional to the light received, but the duration of their punishment will be decided at the judgment during the millennium, characterizing an imposed punishment. Tom: No, it's decided now. It's determined by the light rejected. It's not an arbitrary determination on the part of God, as if the rejection of light had nothing to do with the suffering the wicked will endure in the end, but it's that very rejection which determines the suffering. For example, when Adam and Eve sinned in Eden, they fled God's presence. They were uncomfortable around Him. The moneychangers ran from Christ. quote:
Overpowered with terror, the priests and rulers had fled from the temple court, and from the searching glance that read their hearts. In their flight they met others on their way to the temple, and bade them turn back, telling them what they had seen and heard. Christ looked upon the fleeing men with yearning pity for their fear, and their ignorance of what constituted true worship. (DA 162)
The principle of selfishness cannot abide with self-sacrificing love. It's very uncomfortable to be in God's presence in a state of unbelief. To sin, wherever it is found, God is a consuming fire.
Here is the principle again:
quote:
Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to heaven and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there,-- every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor of God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sitteth upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb?
No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. [u]Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them.[/u] The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God. (GC 542)
Old Tom:The corporate forensic justification of Christ comes into play in this life.
R: What is this corporate forensic justification and what is its purpose?
Tom: The principle of corporate forensice justification is that God treats all people as if they had never sinned. By the gift of Christ, God's grace is communicated to all. All live physically by virture of God's grace manifest in Christ.
quote:
Our Lord has said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you. . . . For My flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:53-55. This is true of our physical nature. To the death of Christ we owe even this earthly life. The bread we eat is the purchase of His broken body. The water we drink is bought by His spilled blood. Never one, saint or sinner, eats his daily food, but he is nourished by the body and the blood of Christ. The cross of Calvary is stamped on every loaf. It is reflected in every water spring. (DA 660)
Because of God's grace, those who reject the Holy Spirit's invitations do not feel the result of God's agape against their sin. In the judgment, they will come face to face with God, and the light of His glory, which gives life to the righteous, will cause them pain, suffering, and ultimately death. It's not an arbitrary imposition on the part of God, but the inevitable consequence of sin coming face to face with God's glory apart from the healing which takes place in Christ.
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13305
05/15/05 11:58 AM
05/15/05 11:58 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
Psalm 18:25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright; 26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
This illustrates the principle that our own character impacts how we perceive God. If we are merciful, we will perceive Him as merciful. If we are froward (crooked) we will perceive Him in as froward.
Therefore, it is vital that we allow the revelation of God in the face of Jesus to do its work in us, so that we may behold him as he is, rather than see him as we are.
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13306
05/15/05 12:02 PM
05/15/05 12:02 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Joh 18:38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
Do we see the truth as it is in Jesus?
Do we still expect his servants to fight at the end of time?
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13307
05/15/05 08:06 PM
05/15/05 08:06 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Tom,
My reply is in the thread "Destruction of the Wicked".
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Re: Behold the Lamb
#13308
05/16/05 03:56 AM
05/16/05 03:56 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Therefore, it is vital that we allow the revelation of God in the face of Jesus to do its work in us, so that we may behold him as he is, rather than see him as we are.
Yes. Given the deceitfulness of our hearts, it's amazing God makes any progress at all. On the other hand, given how good God is, it's amazing so few have any conception of His character that is even remotely like that which was revealed in Jesus Christ.
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