Over the years, since the fall of man, God has killed millions of children. Millions died in the Flood and the conquest of the Promised Land. And, millions more will die when Jesus returns. Why?

GC 655, 656
Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2}

Conflict and Courage, page 27, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Cain Went Out
Notwithstanding that Cain had by his crimes merited the sentence of death, a merciful Creator still spared his life, and granted him opportunity for repentance. But Cain lived only to harden his heart, to encourage rebellion against the divine authority, and to become the head of a line of bold, abandoned sinners. This one apostate, led on by Satan, became a tempter to others; and his example and influence exerted their demoralizing power, until the earth became so corrupt and filled with violence as to call for its destruction. . . .


In sparing the life of Cain the murderer, God gave the world an example of what would be the result of permitting the sinner to live to continue a course of unbridled iniquity. Through the influence of Cain's teaching and example, multitudes of his descendants were led into sin, until "the wickedness of man was great in the earth," and "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."


Testimonies for the Church Volume Three, page 276, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: The Laodicean Church
But the second year passes, and the pitiless heavens give no rain. Drought and famine are doing their sad work, and yet the apostate Israelites do not humble their proud, sinful hearts before God; but they murmur and complain against the prophet of God who brought this dreadful state of things upon them. Fathers and mothers see their children perish, with no power to relieve them. And yet the people are in such terrible darkness that they cannot see that the justice of God is awakened against them because of their sins and that this terrible calamity is sent in mercy to them to save them from fully denying and forsaking the God of their fathers.

It cost Israel suffering and great affliction to be brought to that repentance that was necessary in order to recover their lost faith and a clear sense of their responsibility to God. Their apostasy was more dreadful than drought or famine. Elijah waited and prayed in faith through the long years of drought and famine that the hearts of Israel, through their affliction, might be turned from their idolatry to allegiance to God. But notwithstanding all their sufferings, they stood firm in their idolatry and looked upon the prophet of God as the cause of their calamity. And if they could have had Elijah in their power they would have delivered him to Jezebel, that she might satisfy her revenge by taking his life. Because Elijah dared to utter the word of woe which God bade him, he made himself the object of their hatred. They could not see God's hand in the judgments under which they were suffering because of their sins, but charged them to the man Elijah. They abhorred not the sins which had brought them under the chastening rod, but hated the faithful prophet, God's instrument to denounce their sins and calamity.


Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, October 9, 1900, paragraph 6
Article Title: A Neglected Work
A woe rests upon parents who have not trained their children to be God-fearing, but have allowed them to grow to manhood and womanhood undisciplined and uncontrolled. During their own childhood they were allowed to manifest passion and willfulness and to act from impulse, and they bring this same spirit into their own homes. They are defective in temper, and passionate in government. Even in their acceptance of Christ they have not overcome the passions that were allowed to rule in their childish hearts. They carry the results of their early training through their entire religious life. It is a most difficult thing to remove the impress thus made upon the plant of the Lord; for as the twig is bent, the tree is inclined. If such parents accept the truth, they have a hard battle to fight. They may be transformed in character, but the whole of their religious experience is affected by the lax discipline exercised over them in their early lives. And their children have to suffer because of their defective training; for they stamp their faults upon them to the third and fourth generation.

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Kind of like those children at the David Koresh compound. They had these children out there marching in uniforms with guns, etc... the kids are taught to be just like the parents.
"As the twig is bent, the tree is inclined." and when they grow up they would become just like them as a general rule.

God has different reasons for doing what He does... look up the story of David and how when he sinned God allowed his child to die.

Conflict and Courage, page 269, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Build--Repair--Restore
"In the work of reform to be carried forward today, there is need of men who, like Ezra and Nehemiah, will not palliate or excuse sin, nor shrink from vindicating the honor of God. Those upon whom rests the burden of this work will not hold their peace when wrong is done, neither will they cover evil with a cloak of false charity. They will remember that God is no respecter of persons, and that severity to a few may prove mercy to many."

although that last quote is about another subject I think the key thought is "severity to a few may prove mercy to many" and is the answer to why God sometimes does things that to us may seem harsh.

Its like when people question God about why he allows suffering and death, etc...

Many time I have wondered why God allows animals to suffer... and even why He would set up the sacrificial system. I love animals and their innocence. I used to get angry with God about all of that. Then one day I finally realized that what it all comes down to is this...

I will NEVER know why it is that God does all the things that He does... at least not on this earth. And if Satan causes me to doubt God's purposes, and somehow that doubt gets removed from my mind, Satan will be SURE to set up yet another doubt and another.

I finally realized I have to decide ,, AM I GOING TO TRUST GOD OR NOT?? I have to either trust Him or not and if not then I need to go be something else besides a Christian... because Christianity has to do with faith, not sight, not with perfect understanding of God and His purposes. Think about Eve, the whole problem was that Satan managed to get her to doubt God's intent and make her think God did not have good intent towards she and Adam. He did it to a third of the angels in heaven. He will do it to us, if we allow him too.


Mind, Character, and Personality Volume 2, page 496, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Depression
When depression settles upon the soul, it is no evidence that God has changed. He is "the same yesterday, and today, and forever." You are sure of the favor of God when you are sensible of the beams of the Sun of righteousness; but if the clouds sweep over your soul, you must not feel that you are forsaken. Your faith must pierce the gloom. Your eye must be single, and your whole body shall be full of light. The riches of the grace of Christ must be kept before the mind. Treasure up the lessons that His love provides. Let your faith be like Job's, that you may declare, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him." Lay hold on the promises of your heavenly Father, and remember His former dealing with you and with His servants; for "all things work together for good to them that love God." --RH, Jan 24, 1888.


In Heavenly Places, page 105, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Faith Versus Sight
God gives us sufficient evidence to enable us to accept the truth understandingly, but He does not propose to remove all occasion for doubt and unbelief. Should He do this, there would no longer be a necessity for the exercise of faith; for we would be able to walk by sight. All who with a teachable spirit study the Word of God may learn therefrom the way of salvation, yet they may not be able to understand every portion of the Sacred Record. . . . Whatever is clearly established by the Word of God we should accept, without attempting to meet every doubt which Satan may suggest, or with our finite understanding to fathom the counsels of the infinite One, or to criticize the manifestations of His grace or power. . . .

Good points and quotes Claudia. The suffering of innocent, young people is hard to understand. It's important though for us to grapple with this issue because many of us will live to see the day, maybe not far away, in which carnage of all sorts, violence, terror, blood, disease and famine will stock us on all sides. Many of the strongest men have suffered from 'shell shock' as they watched the results of war. It has driven many to distraction. We need to be grounded in the love of God - a love that includes strong discipline - the valley of Jehosaphat.

These quotes, from another thread, seem like they would fit well here.

quote:

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Men have reached a point in insolence and disobedience which shows that their cup of iniquity is almost full. Many have well-nigh passed the boundary of mercy. Soon God will show that He is indeed the living God. He will say to the angels, "No longer combat Satan in his efforts to destroy. Let him work out his malignity upon the children of disobedience; for the cup of their iniquity is full. They have advanced from one degree of wickedness to another, adding daily to their lawlessness. I will no longer interfere to prevent the destroyer from doing his work." (RH 9/17/01)

The character revealed by Pharaoh is similar to that of all the impenitent. God destroys no man; but after a time the wicked are given up to the destruction they have wrought for themselves. (YI 11/30/93)

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. (GC 589)

The long-suffering of God toward Jerusalem only confirmed the Jews in their stubborn impenitence. In their hatred and cruelty toward the disciples of Jesus they rejected the last offer of mercy. Then God withdrew His protection from them and removed His restraining power from Satan and his angels, and the nation was left to the control of the leader she had chosen. (GC 28)

The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will. The horrible cruelties enacted in the destruction of Jerusalem are a demonstration of Satan's vindictive power over those who yield to his control. (GC 35)

Like Israel of old the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire.(GC 37)

When God’s restraining hand is removed, the destroyer begins his work. (3MR 314)

God could not for a moment stay his hand, or man would faint and die. (DA 207)

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The reason evil happens in the world is because of sin -- people and other created beings exercise their will contrary to God's will, which results in bad things happening. The judgment will show that God is innocent. The life (and death) of Christ shows what God's character is like. We can fully trust God because He really is like Jesus Christ.

We should also bear in mind that humanity and creation are preserved by God. He commissions angels to prevent Satan from exercising his destructive power. When the four winds are let loose, it is at the command of God.

This tells us that although sin is the underlying cause, God is the one overruling it's effects to extend probationary time to humanity.

So sin running its course is only a partial answer, especially where young children and babes are concerned who have not fixed their characters by their own concious and repeated decisions and habits. Their destruction can be traced to sin and Satan, but their lack of probationary time is something that we have to leave to the wisdom of Someone greater than ourselves.

The same is true of young men and women who are killed in war. Their time is cut short. Most probably have not committed the unpardonable sin. The converted and unconverted may die side by side. We don't have a complete answer. But, by faith we know that 'all things work together for good. . . ' and that 'God is {indeed} love.'

Thats why I view the Iraq War as I do.


When you think of all the thousand plus American soldiers killed in the Iraq war and compare that with the fact that in Southern Iraq there have been 295 mass graves containing thousands of Saddam Hussein's victims uncovered in the two years since U.S.-led forces invaded and ousted the dictator.

If you look at a thousand verses thousands and thousands in Iraq... these are all human beings God created, all souls to be won or lost for eternity.


Acts:10:34: "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"

God is no respecter of persons and its tempting to view those thousands of people who have all been killed in Iraq as not being as important as we are here in America ...but the truth is that I dont think God looks at it that way at all.

Thats thousands and thousands and thousands of people who have had their probationary time cut short... thousands who dont know Jesus.

Its terrible that so many of our soldiers have died but I see it as preventing thousands of more from dying.. without being saved.

And thats why when I look at things like that I dont get too upset about it and I think of Ezekiel's Wheel.

Last Day Events, page 29, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Signs of Christ's Soon Return
As the wheel-like complications were under the guidance of the hand beneath the wings of the cherubim, so the complicated play of human events is under divine control. Amidst the strife and tumult of nations, He that sitteth above the cherubim still guides the affairs of the earth.[4. SEE EZEKIEL 1:4, 26; 10:8; DANIEL 4:17, 25, 32.]--Ed 178 (1903).

In the annals of human history, the growth of nations, the rise and fall of empires, appear as if dependent on the will and prowess of man; the shaping of events seems, to a great degree, to be determined by his power, ambition, or caprice. But in the Word of God the curtain is drawn aside, and we behold, above, behind, and through all the play and counterplay of human interest and power and passions, the agencies of the All-merciful One, silently, patiently working out the counsels of His own will.--PK 499, 500 (c. 1914).


Claudia

Interesting thoughts, Claudia. Please tell me how they tie in with the thread.

Thanks!

I was reading about Jonah and thought this insight belonged on this thread. Again, Sister White makes it painfully obvious that God has, and will, exercised His power to punish and destroy unsaved sinners.

PK 275-277
Our God is a God of mercy. With long-sufferance and tender compassion He deals with the transgressors of His law. And yet, in this our day, when men and women have so many opportunities for becoming familiar with the divine law as revealed in Holy Writ, the great Ruler of the universe cannot behold with any satisfaction the wicked cities, where reign violence and crime. The end of God's forbearance with those who persist in disobedience is approaching rapidly. {PK 275.3}

Ought men to be surprised over a sudden and unexpected change in the dealings of the Supreme Ruler with the inhabitants of a fallen world? Ought they to be surprised when punishment follows transgression and increasing crime? Ought they to be surprised that God should bring destruction and death upon those whose ill-gotten gains have been obtained through deception and fraud? Notwithstanding the fact that increasing light regarding God's requirements has been shining on their pathway, many have refused to recognize Jehovah's rulership, and have chosen to remain under the black banner of the originator of all rebellion against the government of heaven. {PK 276.1}

The forbearance of God has been very great--so great that when we consider the continuous insult to His holy commandments, we marvel. The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. But He will certainly arise to punish the wicked, who so boldly defy the just claims of the Decalogue. {PK 276.2}

God allows men a period of probation; but there is a point beyond which divine patience is exhausted, and the judgments of God are sure to follow. The Lord bears long with men, and with cities, mercifully giving warnings to save them from divine wrath; but a time will come when pleadings for mercy will no longer be heard, and the rebellious element that continues to reject the light of truth will be blotted out, in mercy to themselves and to those who would otherwise be influenced by their example. {PK 276.3}

The time is at hand when there will be sorrow in the world that no human balm can heal. The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger. {PK 277.1}

MM, no one disputes that God will act in such a way as to bring about the destruction and death of the unrighteous. How does He do this? The answer is given in the quote you provide:

quote:

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The time is at hand when there will be sorrow in the world that no human balm can heal. The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property!

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This principle is enunciated clearly in the first chapter of the Great Controversy:

quote:

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The Jews had forged their own fetters; they had filled for themselves the cup of vengeance. In the utter destruction that befell them as a nation, and in all the woes that followed them in their dispersion, they were but reaping the harvest which their own hands had sown. Says the prophet: "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;" "for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity." Hosea 13:9; 14:1. Their sufferings are often represented as a punishment visited upon them by the direct decree of God. It is thus that the great deceiver seeks to conceal his own work. By stubborn rejection of divine love and mercy, the Jews had caused the protection of God to be withdrawn from them, and Satan was permitted to rule them according to his will.

We cannot know how much we owe to Christ for the peace and protection which we enjoy. It is the restraining power of God that prevents mankind from passing fully under the control of Satan. The disobedient and unthankful have great reason for gratitude for God's mercy and long-suffering in holding in check the cruel, malignant power of the evil one. But when men pass the limits of divine forbearance, that restraint is removed. God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown. (GC 35, 36)

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God's wrath in Scripture is His withdrawal. The following Scriptures bring this out: (Deut 31:17, 18; Jer. 33:5; 2 Chron 29: 6, 8; 2 Kings 17:17-20; Ps. 27:9; Ps. 89:46; Ps. 143:7; Hosea 9:12; Lam. 2:5-7; Rom. 1:18-26)

For example:

quote:

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17 Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?' 18 And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods. (Deut. 31:17, 18)

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Evil comes from Satan, and is restrained by God's Spirit. But when God is persistently rejected, there comes a time when God will turn people over to their own choice. The above Scriptures bring this out, as does the Spirit of Prophesy.