Pardon means that forgiveness must take place. The requirement for forgiveness to take place is that the offended party must be willing to forgive, and the offending party must be willing to be forgiven. God has always been a willing party, so much so that He gave His Son. The problem has always been on our end. We need to have the love of God revealed to us, so that we are led to repentance, and desire forgiveness.

It looks like you may be thinking of "imputed" as dealing with only a legal issue, as not impacting one's being. The imputed righteousness of Christ changes us, involving as it does the writing of the law on the heart, bringing us in conformity with the will of God. This was a cornerstone of the message which Jones and Waggoner brought to us.



The SOP expresses the concept here:

Tom, I believe justification is what God does for us legally, namely, substitutes Jesus' righteousness for our pardoned sinfulness. It has nothing to do with what He does in and through us. Yes, knowing He justifies us fills us with peace and happiness and thankfulness, which, in turn, motivates us to abide in Jesus, to grow in grace, and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit more and more unto the perfect day. Nevertheless, justification and sanctification are different in that justification provides pardon and salvation whereas sanctification empowers us to move beyond the static state of pardon to experience personal "righteousness and true holiness".

OK, and Jesus didn't need that. So He cannot have been justified in the same way we are.

If you read what I quoted, by either Waggoner or EGW, it can be seen that it involves more than simply legalities.



No, this doesn't agree with either quote. The quotes were clear that justification involves a change of heart.



Before knowing He justifies us can motivate us, we need to be motivated to be justified.



You cannot be justified without experiencing personal "righteousness and true holiness." That's impossible.

Also, sanctification is as connected to salvation as justification is. Sanctification and justification cannot be separated. Colin put it nicely, the idea being something like sanctification is justification continuing to be experienced.

Thank you for sharing your view. Justification deals with past pardoned sins. However, it does not change our heart in the same way sanctification does. Jesus will cease offering justification to sinners after probation closes. Sanctification, on the other hand, will continue to happen throughout eternity, namely, growing in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit, which, by the way, does not require justification.

Yes, the affects of justification are eternal, namely, pardon for past sins will never be rescinded. But the application of justification, namely, pardon for new sins, will no longer be available. One reason for this is the simple fact no one will ever sin again. But if they did (and they won't) they would perish without hope of pardon. No more second chances or probations. Conditions leading to sin would mean the person is unwilling to be pardoned.

Yes, yes...

Why is justification by faith, imputed righteousness, also called our qualification for heaven? Is pardon alone our qualification for heaven, or also, more importantly, regeneration by the Spirit, rebirth in the Spirit???

The pardon alone explanation you present, MM, looks uncannily like the forensic only, legal standing of acquittal, justification of Evangelicalism. Tell me why it isn't, please?

Is the Spirit of God imputed to us unilaterally by God, or are we born again by imparted righteousness, by choosing to obey before we actually receive the Spirit. That's why rebirth is the experience of justification, and living that new life is sanctification: the experience of justification in action, not just the renewal of a moment.

You're limiting what justification entails. I've already presented several quotes demonstrating this. First of all, from Waggoner. Jones repeated the same thing. Ellen White echoed their view.

Secondly, from Ellen White herself, the fig-leaf quote. The nakedness is covered (justification), when the heart is merged with Christ's heart, etc. That involves much more than a mere legal pardon for past sins.

Finally, here's another quote:



This is clearly talking about justification, right? Notice what is mentions:

1.Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul.
2.The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ.
3.The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself.
4.Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8.

These are the sorts of things one often thinks of in relation to sanctification, yet here they are all mentioned in the context of justification.

Thanks, Tom, and one more thing, implicit there...

The new life of the Spirit created in us by grace through faith in the experience of justification involves us dying to self and sin, too. The heart of the cross for us isn't so much revelation of the love of God toward sinners, and the wrath of God toward sin itself - so, mercy and justice combined, but death to sin - actual, spiritual death to sin by reconnecting to God by his Spirit. The full meaning of the cross is dying to self: that's not mere persuasion and agreement that God is agape - the devils believe and tremble! That's putting the old, sinful man of self to death by the power of God, dying to sin, coming to life in Christ, and living the new life toward God, by the faith of Jesus. Thus justification changes us, not just pardons us.

Jesus himself - since he is the subject of this thread - was burdened with a human, sinful self, but he perfectly denied himself, his assumed, sinful self, in obedience to his Father, submitting thereby to the new life of the Spirit. This was in order to qualify as Saviour of the world, whereafter he might then be the Pioneer and Perfecter of the faith, our Example.

Thanks for the wink. I need all the winks I can get. My office mate was winking at me, but that's because he had something in his eye.



I agree with this.



I disagree with this. Not with the dying to self/sin part, which I agree is essential, but with the "not so much" part. In the DA quote I cited, it starts out telling us it is the love of God shining from the cross that is drawing us, and that all who do not resist this drawing will be saved. So I see it as essential.



I mostly agree with this. I agree completely with the point that it's not mere persuasion or agreement that God is agape, but that's not what the quote cited is talking about. It speaks of the agape of God drawing us to repentance, and that we will repent, unless we resist that love. This agrees with Romans, which tells us that it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance. Often people think it's something else that leads us to repentance, but it's not; it's the goodness of God. So if we wish to cooperate with God in bringing sinners to repentance, what should we do? We should communicate His goodness! I like that idea.



I agree with this, except that the "just pardons us" is referring to a general false conception of what "pardon" involves. True pardon, the pardon that Scripture speaks of, and the SOP as well, incorporates all the things you mentioned. There's no such thing as pardon which does not include these things. So "just pardon," properly understood, would be enough, but not "just pardon" according to the common false idea of what pardon entails (i.e., merely a legal problem).



Agreed. The importance of Jesus accomplishing this in order for it to be possible for us is often not understood, since the connection between us and Jesus is broken (by the idea that He didn't take our sinful nature).