Mark, as I said, in Num. 14:34, 40 days is the prophecy and 40 years, the fulfillment. The same is true in Ezek. 4. 390/40 days is the prophecy and 390/40 years is the fulfillment. There is no inversion.

GC, and where does the Bible says that? Certainly not in the passages you mentioned.

Rosangela, the Bible doesn't "say" everything that it teaches. Where does the Bible "say" that light represents truth? God has given us intelligence to understand some of what is not directly or explicitly stated. Jesus spoke in parables for this same reason. Jesus never directly answered some of the questions He was asked, yet there was enough in His response for us to infer the correct truth that He was teaching.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, thank you for the lesson on the term "generation". Very interesting. Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." He named several things that would be fulfilled before the "generation" He was addressing passed.

For example, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" and "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."

Is it safe to say these details of the prophecy were fulfilled by 70 AD? Is not the "great tribulation" yet future? And, didn't the dark day and blood moon and falling stars events happen in 1780 and 1833? Ellen wrote:


Perhaps "this generation" refers to Christianity? That is, Christianity "shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

Mike,

There are other potential senses to the word "generation" than that which I have heretofore given. For example, in the following passage, I might read one of two things, neither of them so far addressed.



In terms of creation's prophecy, each of those "generations" would be seen as a period of 1000 years. Mrs. White was not aware of this prophecy, however, and so cannot be expected to have seen that connection. It is a case of dual application. She applies it to a single day, also a legitimate application. But most people today would not look upon a single day as a "generation."

The point I'm making is that context is necessary when studying a passage. There are some general principles and points to watch for when studying, but one cannot make absolute statements or definitions which would always apply to every case.

Jesus' prophecy as recorded in Matthew 24 was two-fold, and just like the two-fold prophecy of Ezekiel 4 (one part for Judah, one part for Israel), there are some parts of the prophecy that apply equally to both (like the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in the Ezekiel prophecy) and some parts which are tailored more to one group or the other. Not all of the statements in Matthew 24 were to be applied to AD 70, nor do all of them necessarily apply to our time. There are portions, however, which certainly did apply to both, and Mrs. White speaks of this.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The strongest Biblical/Spiritual evidence that the time elements in prophecies will not be literally fulfilled after 1844 is what God directly “told/showed” to EGW. Indeed, this was given as direct light on what is to be understood in the statement in Rev 10:6b. Off the top of my head, I cannot recall from the SOP anytime when a Biblical passage was directly, and so pointedly interpreted by God. Just think of all the debate that would have saved during the 1888 issue if that had been so pointedly and timely done then. So either here EGW is lying in her many statements claiming this direct revelation (E.g., 2SM 73 (1885), 10MR 270 (1888); 272 (1891); 7BC 971 (1900); cf. LDE 35-36; RH, November 1, 1850 par. 12; cf. RH, Nov. 22, 1892 par. 7.), or what she said is indeed the explicit, injunctively stated will of God. I do not understand why you continue in your claim, which is based merely on supposition which have actually shown to be invalid by Rosangela’s point (cf. e.g., Post #133653), and just ignore/not address those clear direct revelation statements by EGW. To me you are only acting against clear Biblical, Spiritual and Prophetic ‘(God-stipulated) Law, Testimony and Light.’ (=Isa 8:20).



Just because William Miller made a statement, it does not mean it is the Truth/“Rule”, Case in point, he did not believe in the Seventh-Month (October 22, 1844) movement. It is the Bible that determines what is truth and what are valid hermeneutical principles/“rule”.

I Biblically believe that prophecies are all conditional in what will or will not be fulfilled in what they have stated. That also applies to having some parts of a prophecy be literally fulfilled and other parts only spiritually. (cf. Isa 55:10, 11). So as I also Theologically see/understand that God in His wisdom “foresaw” that things would go the distance, in terms of prophetic development, though the end could have occurred many times before, indeed starting with the ca. 70-90 A.D. Local/Literal Fulfillment wave, I therefore see and understand that God will continue to guide those who are faithful in doing His will in paths that will be in accordance to the Spiritual and Prophetic intent of Bible prophecies, indeed in some applicable way, re-fulfilling some, as the actual current circumstances demand it. That is how I understand prophecies will (continue to) be refulfilled in this current Eschatological Wave of Fulfillments. Indeed prophecies don’t necessarily have to all be refulfilled in this current Wave, but probably will eventually all be in some applicable form, with God’s wise (prophetic) word indeed finding a pertinent application with all generations of true believers until the end. (Indeed as with the Bible derived prophecies given through the SOP).

I see that EGW began to concretely, if not initially, realize that time would continue beyond her day, starting in the fall/winter of 1908, (cf. in this post).



Interesting point here. Since June 2000, I have presented (via emails) a Biblical study showing that the Two Witnesses prophecy of Rev 11 indeed had a current, and entirely “judgement of the SDA Church’ application. (See this message here It continues to be updated.) (I was invited then by Daryl F, who had received one of those emails, to post that study in this forum, but did not take up that offer). So I do agree with your general “judgement fulfillment” view here, however, as shown in my exposition, I, following the SOP’s clear counsel, do not literally apply/reckon any of the time elements mentioned in that prophecy, but only Spiritually use them as indicators of what type of fulfillment is to be expected based on how those time elements have been fullfilled during Church History, i.e., 90-1844 A.D.

That is indeed the operative question. And succinctly stated here from the more detailed explanation here, I Biblically-Theologically-Spiritually-Prophetically-Experientially (indeed in that order of discovery/ascertainment), believe that the residual Historical Age ended in ca. 1996 and since then, the current Full Eschatological Age/Wave, which involves a re-fullfillement of prophecies (-time) began. In this regard, I see that the SOP is being, and will more fully be, Spiritually reapplied, in the same way, and indeed for the same reasons, as the OT prophecies given to Israel had to be postponed and spiritually reapplied during and throughout the NT Israel era.

NJK,

Look more carefully at Mrs. White's statements relative to times after 1844. It may be that Mark sees something that you do not see. Her statements seem clear relative to time and 1844, I agree with that. But what exactly do they address?

It is my understanding based on rather extensive reading of those statements of hers that the following two points are true of all of the "prophetic time is no more" type statements which she makes:

1) She specifies this always for prophecies upon "definite time;" and
2) She is speaking always in terms of "second advent" prophecies.

In other words, the "prophetic time is no more after 1844" only applies to time prophecies which have a "definite time" (such as the Oct. 22, 1844 date had), and also to prophecies which would seek to predict Jesus' coming (as the Oct. 22, 1844 date did). After that date, there were to be no more such prophecies. In other words, the Oct. 22 date for the second coming was ordained to be preached by God, who even held His hand over a mistake in Miller's figures, but that was to be the last such prophecy upon "definite time" which would seek to predict the Lord's coming.

This does not, however, remove the possibility for prophecies upon "indefinite time," in fact, the very fact that Mrs. White is so careful to specify each time that she is speaking of "definite time" opens the door necessarily to the fact that there will be other prophecies upon less-exact times that should come. Furthermore, it would seem reasonable to expect prophecies that did not point to Jesus' coming might still be valid, even if time based and/or having specific dates.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Maybe. However, if we translate "this generation" to mean the Christian Age we are not forced to interpret "all these things" to exclude such prominent aspects of Jesus' prophecy as the great tribulation and the dark day/blood moon and falling stars events from our 70 AD fulfillment model. Nor would it force us to reject the dual application principle of certain aspects of Jesus' prophecy in relation to both 70 AD and the final crisis.

What purpose would a time prophecy that doesn't pinpoint specific times and dates serve? What use would we make of it? In other words, why would God specify a period of time, say 1260 years, without also specifying definitive starting and ending dates?