Mountain Man,

I agree with Ellen White that the Bible does not "sanction" the use of alcohol. It does, however, "allow" it. It nowhere calls it a "sin" to drink it. It is almost implied, but nothing explicit. The question I would ask, is "Why?" And how does one choose to interpret this ambiguity? It is most certainly just as "gray" as the quails which God Himself had provided but which "sent leanness to their souls." Certainly, the mere provision (under provocation) of the quails to the children of Israel did not represent God's official "sanction" of their consumption. They should have been content with manna. But God gave them what was ultimately the most important: CHOICE.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Both of you say being drunk is wrong, but refuse to define what drunk is. So how will you know what is wrong? How can it be irrelevant to ask you to define what you think is wrong?

While the circumstances are different, is it just me or does anyone else see a similarity to a certain senator who, when questioned if he sent a nude photo with his cell phone, refused to answer and proceeded to go on about irrelevant things?

Now I see why you think adultery is ok. Your distinction between sanction and allow doesn't seem very distinct to me. By them indulging in their choice of eating quail: How did that work out for them?

There is no comparison between quail and booze. You asked, "how does one choose to interpret this ambiguity?" I'm surprised, shocked, you are unwilling to embrace what Jesus said about it through the SOP. There is nothing gray or ambiguous about it. Jesus pronounced a curse upon those who put the bottle to their lips. These strong words disallow the idea that Jesus tolerated it or permitted it in moderation.

GC, just in case you suspect the word "sanction" in the quote above is ambiguous and might mean Jesus permitted alcohol consumption please consider the following inspired insights:

The only way in which any can be secure against the power of intemperance, is to abstain wholly from wine, beer, and strong drinks.-- Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, page 37.

Therefore God explicitly forbids the use of wine and strong drink.--Signs of the Times, July 8, 1880.

God expressly forbade the use of wine that would have an influence to becloud the intellect. {Te 44.1}

The Lord has given special directions in His word in reference to the use of wine and strong drink. He has forbidden their use, and enforced His prohibitions with strong warnings and threatenings. But His forbidding the use of intoxicating beverages is not an exercise of arbitrary authority. He seeks to restrain men, in order that they may escape from the evil results of indulgence in wine and strong drink. Degradation, cruelty, wretchedness, and strife follow as the natural results of intemperance. God has pointed out the consequences of following this course of evil. This He has done that there may not be a perversion of His laws, and that men may be spared the widespread misery resulting from the course of evil men who, for the sake of gain, sell maddening intoxicants.--Drunkenness and Crime, pages 4-6.

With the awful results of indulgence in intoxicating drink before us, how is it that any man or woman who claims to believe in the word of God, can venture to touch, taste, or handle wine or strong drink? Such a practice is certainly out of harmony with their professed faith. {Te 42.3}

The liquor traffic is a terrible scourge to our land, and is sustained and legalized by those who profess to be Christians. In thus doing, the churches make themselves responsible for all the results of this death-dealing traffic. The liquor traffic has its root in hell itself, and it leads to perdition. These are solemn considerations.--Review and Herald, May 1, 1894.

Many, as they read this, will laugh at the warning of danger. They will say, "Surely the little wine or cider that I use cannot hurt me." [If] all would be vigilant and faithful in guarding the little openings made by the moderate use of the so-called harmless wine and cider, the highway to drunkenness would be closed up.--Review and Herald, March 25, 1884.

God does not FORCE. That is ultimately one of the principles of love. Love demands liberty. Let us not forget that God created us with the power of choice, and God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil Himself.

Isaiah 45:7 seems to recognize this basic principle in which God takes responsibility for both good and evil: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Obviously, it didn't work out too well for them to eat the quail. Nonetheless, God Himself had provided it.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

God is the Judge. The Lord looks on the heart, while man can merely see the outward appearance. We are not qualified to make such sharp distinctions which only God can make. And praise the Lord, God is merciful!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, please address 134034 and 035 above (my last two posts). Thank you.

PS - How can God threaten such severe punishment for drunkenness and yet fail to give us enough info to define and discern what counts as drunkenness so we can avoid His justice and judgments?

Mike,

I have already answered your questions in earlier posts. That is, I believe God has raised the standard. What Mrs. White says is certainly true as pertains to today's standards. However, the Biblical standard may well not be the same as the present one.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

So are you now saying that you cannot say that being drunk is wrong and/or a sin?