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Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134048
06/02/11 03:05 PM
06/02/11 03:05 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Do you think God would give laws governing our sins because we were ignorant? Like telling us how to sin fairly?

GC, certainly there were already polygamous marriages and slaves among the israelites when they left Egypt, and laws were made in order to lessen or minimize the evils caused by these ancient customs.


Rosangela,

God's command did not address the type of marriage you speak of here. It addressed NEW / ADDITIONAL marriages, i.e. plural marriages yet future.

"If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134050
06/02/11 03:10 PM
06/02/11 03:10 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
GC, you must have missed what I said about this:

<<After his father died and he had already got the inheritance, he could have a child of his own.>>

All he had to do was to wait until he got his hands on the money. After that he could have as many children as he wished.

Rosangela,

That still makes no sense to me. If he had children by his brother's wife, would it matter when that happened? Those children would automatically become the heirs of his brother's estate. The only way for him to have all the children he wanted to and this not be the case would be to have those children by a different wife.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
GC and Rosangela, there was more than the inheritance of money or estate in question. The biggest inheritance was the spiritual birthright. The son that was given that responsibility had a spiritual obligation to represent God, guide according to God's charge, and protect the rights of the family. Then that birthright was passed on to one of his descedance, but not necessarily his own son, but could be to one of his grand-son or great grand son depending when the one carrying the birthright is about to die and who God inspires to select.

This was the issue at hand and that's why the brother had to impregnant the deceased birthright holder's widow.


Blessings
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134051
06/02/11 03:22 PM
06/02/11 03:22 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
That still makes no sense to me. If he had children by his brother's wife, would it matter when that happened? Those children would automatically become the heirs of his brother's estate. The only way for him to have all the children he wanted to and this not be the case would be to have those children by a different wife.

After the birthright had passed to him, obviously nobody could take it from him. His deceased brother's descendants would have lost the birthright.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134053
06/02/11 03:29 PM
06/02/11 03:29 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Would it be OK for the men who made faith's hall of fame to go to a prostitute?
Not necessarily. But to sleep with her is to marry her according to the Bible. So what happens if you are already married? I guess you just picked up another wife in that case.

No, you've committed adultery. And the person who comitted adultery cannot keep both "wives." Or do you think he can?

Quote:
There is simply no prohibition on polygamy in the Bible. Find me even one text that declares it to be a sin.

GC, find me even one text that declares that slavery is a sin, or that smoking is a sin.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134054
06/02/11 03:31 PM
06/02/11 03:31 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
That still makes no sense to me. If he had children by his brother's wife, would it matter when that happened? Those children would automatically become the heirs of his brother's estate. The only way for him to have all the children he wanted to and this not be the case would be to have those children by a different wife.

After the birthright had passed to him, obviously nobody could take it from him. His deceased brother's descendants would have lost the birthright.

Rosangela,

I challenge you to supply even one instance from the Bible that would support your interpretation. It is my understanding that any child, regardless of how soon born to her, of that widow would have received the inheritance of the surrogate father's deceased brother. There is nothing that I have read that would indicate there was any kind of time limit on those births after which this would not be the case.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134055
06/02/11 03:34 PM
06/02/11 03:34 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
God's command did not address the type of marriage you speak of here. It addressed NEW / ADDITIONAL marriages, i.e. plural marriages yet future.

"If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish."

Yes, God did not abolish these customs at that time. He waited for the people to mature spiritually so that they could realize that those customs were not according to His will. And this eventually happened.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134056
06/02/11 03:38 PM
06/02/11 03:38 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
That still makes no sense to me. If he had children by his brother's wife, would it matter when that happened? Those children would automatically become the heirs of his brother's estate. The only way for him to have all the children he wanted to and this not be the case would be to have those children by a different wife.

After the birthright had passed to him, obviously nobody could take it from him. His deceased brother's descendants would have lost the birthright.
To my understanding, he get's nothing. All would go to the child who would carry his brother's name. Like GC said, if he wants his own children, he can have all the children he wants with another wife.


Blessings
Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Green Cochoa] #134057
06/02/11 03:38 PM
06/02/11 03:38 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
I challenge you to supply even one instance from the Bible that would support your interpretation. It is my understanding that any child, regardless of how soon born to her, of that widow would have received the inheritance of the surrogate father's deceased brother. There is nothing that I have read that would indicate there was any kind of time limit on those births after which this would not be the case.

GC, Reuben lost his birthright and, obviously, so did his descendants. His birthright passed to another.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Elle] #134058
06/02/11 03:45 PM
06/02/11 03:45 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
To my understanding, he get's nothing. All would go to the child who would carry his brother's name. Like GC said, if he wants his own children, he can have all the children he wants with another wife.

Elle,
You and GC are trying to apply modern thinking to an ancient culture.

Re: The Bible and Polygamy [Re: Rosangela] #134059
06/02/11 03:46 PM
06/02/11 03:46 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Would it be OK for the men who made faith's hall of fame to go to a prostitute?
Not necessarily. But to sleep with her is to marry her according to the Bible. So what happens if you are already married? I guess you just picked up another wife in that case.

No, you've committed adultery. And the person who comitted adultery cannot keep both "wives." Or do you think he can?

I can name examples of harlots who became wives and were kept. I think you could too, if you tried.
Originally Posted By: Rosangela

Quote:
There is simply no prohibition on polygamy in the Bible. Find me even one text that declares it to be a sin.

GC, find me even one text that declares that slavery is a sin, or that smoking is a sin.


Slavery was not a sin. God commanded it in certain cases and set down very careful rules to govern the practice. So much for a text that would declare it to be sin. Even Paul encouraged the runaway slave to return to his master (see Philemon).

As for the smoking, there is one text that puts it in a bad light. Not quite a "thou shalt not," but certainly lumping the practice with other evils.

"Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, [yet] will I not hear them." (Ezekiel 8:17-18)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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