I understand much of the other to be Mrs. White's use of symbolic writing, maybe even from her sources, for a running natative and the phrases you see as symbolic I understand as her giving what the symbolic language symbolizes.

Now this has been a debate in the church since before we were born. Elder, I think his last name is Fifefield taught this. He was a friend of Mrs. White's and we do not have record of her correcting his error, but her in such as those phrases you see as more symbolic and I see her as explaining the symbolism, she appears to use her ideas. Lynn Harper Wood developed this in the 1920s. Paul Heubech was one of Wood's students and would teach this. Edwin Heppenstall could not decide between the two views. A number of our leading theologians in the 1950s held this view including some who contributed to the SDABC. And even before Adventism, while I have not seen enought to convince me, I've seen evidence and heard people argue that William Tyndal had a similar if not same view of hell fire as Fifefield, Wood, Heubech and others taught. We need to keep studying and be fair to our understanding of the Bible and Mrs. White.

1. The altar of burnt offering links sin, sinners, and hellfire.

2. Unpardoned sinners were led out of the camp with the scapegoat on the day of atonement.

The burnt offering(the daily, and other burnt offerings made with other offerings like sin offerings) represented Jesus… Could you elaborate how you see this linking sin, sinners, and hellfire?


First of all, the red heifer which represented Jesus, was killed and burnt outside the camp. So it was not only the sinners that were sent outside the camp.

Num 19: 2 “:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke: 3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:”

The Scapegoat of Lev 16

Concerning the scapegoat. The Scapegoat is misunderstood. I have posted Doug Goslin study at #Post 124209 here . At first I had misunderstood the meaning of the misunderstood scapegoat and thought that Jesus was Azazel, when according to the Masoretic Text, Jesus was the 2nd goat sent alive FOR Azazel, which I explain this below.

This became clear to me of my misunderstanding when some months ago, I decided to check the Hebrew literal translation of Lev 16:10. Here is what I discovered.

The Literal Hebrew translation of Lev 16:10

Before hand, let me explain in brief that there are two works of Christ to atone for the sins of the world.

1. Justification : accomplish/symbolized by His death
2. Sanctification: accomplish/symbolized by His ressurection and His work in us and His work in destroying the works of the Devil.

The death and resurection of Jesus depicts this two works. This works was reveal in the TYPE with the 2 doves ritual(one dead, the other alive).(Lev 14) The same is depicted in the TYPE with the 2 goats ritual(one dead, the other alive) (Lev. 16).

First of all you have to acknowledge that these two goats were both without blemish for the lot could of fell on either. Right there one of these goats couldn't represent Lucifer, for he is filled with blemish. Both of these animals were without blemish because both represented Christ and His two works to atone for the world.

Lev 16:10 "But the goat, on which the lot fell [to be the] (for) scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go [for a ] (to) scapegoat into the wilderness. "

Notice what I have put in bracket and highlight in red the inaccuracy of the translation. What is in parenthese and in green is what the litteral translation in the original text would say. Do look at the masoretic text with strong code available at www. scripture4all.org. I have their free software download on my computer, which is more detail than the one online. So I'm referring to their software.

Basically the translation error(& bias) is that the second goat was for Azazel and not to be Azazel.

Let me paraphrase from the literal text by only giving the literal translation provided by this software where I will supply the strong codes with it. Please go check the Masoretic text yourself at Scripture4All Link if you really want to be objective about this and know the truth about God's plan of salvation.

Lev 16:10 "But the goat, on which the lot fell over-him (5921) for-goat-of-departure (5799) shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him and to-send-away-of[/i] (7971) him (853) to-goat-of-departure (5799) the-wilderness-ward (4057)"

Above is the literal translation of the Hebrew are in bold and italic font. As you can see the goat that the lot fell on was FOR the scapegoat. It was not the scapegoat itself. And in the later half of the text, that goat (that the lot fell on) was sent away TO the scapegoat in the wilderness.

This was fufilled when Jesus was baptised(=death of 1st goat for the Lord) and then the Holy Spirit(the fit man) led him(live 2nd goat for Azazel) in the wilderness to be tempted by Satan(Azazel).

I'm bumping this in case this got burried and you haven't read my reply to you MM.

Limiting types to only the law of Moses is, as confirmed by exegesis, not accurate as even God’s dealings with, and the experiences of, Israel recorded in those books, as well as the rest of the OT, even NT with NT Israel, serves as types and examples (e.g., Early Rain, 70 A.D. destruction). E.g, 1 Cor 10:11 (“example” Greek typikos #5917a; cf. the uses of #5917b hyptypikos in e.g., 1 Cor 10:6; Rom 5:14; 1 Thess 1:7; 2 Thess 3:9; 1 Tim 4:12; Tit 2:7; 1 Pet 5:3).

(1) If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, (2) And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; (3) Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. (4) Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and [/u]keep his commandments[/u], and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

MM, I would appreciate a respond if you can. I'm bumping this in case this got burried and you haven't read my reply to you MM:

M: The altar of burnt offering links sin, sinners, and hellfire.

E: The burnt offering(the daily, and other burnt offerings made with other offerings like sin offerings) represented Jesus… Could you elaborate how you see this linking sin, sinners, and hellfire?

M: Unpardoned sinners were led out of the camp with the scapegoat on the day of atonement.

E: First of all, the red heifer which represented Jesus, was killed and burnt outside the camp. So it was not only the sinners that were sent outside the camp.

Num 19: 2 “:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke: 3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:”

The Scapegoat of Lev 16

Concerning the scapegoat. The Scapegoat is misunderstood. I have posted Doug Goslin study at #Post 124209 here . At first I had misunderstood the meaning of the misunderstood scapegoat and thought that Jesus was Azazel, when according to the Masoretic Text, Jesus was the 2nd goat sent alive FOR Azazel, which I explain this below.

This became clear to me of my misunderstanding when some months ago, I decided to check the Hebrew literal translation of Lev 16:10. Here is what I discovered.

The Literal Hebrew translation of Lev 16:10

Before hand, let me explain in brief that there are two works of Christ to atone for the sins of the world.

1. Justification : accomplish/symbolized by His death
2. Sanctification: accomplish/symbolized by His ressurection and His work in us and His work in destroying the works of the Devil.

The death and resurection of Jesus depicts this two works. This works was reveal in the TYPE with the 2 doves ritual(one dead, the other alive).(Lev 14) The same is depicted in the TYPE with the 2 goats ritual(one dead, the other alive) (Lev. 16).

First of all you have to acknowledge that these two goats were both without blemish for the lot could of fell on either. Right there one of these goats couldn't represent Lucifer, for he is filled with blemish. Both of these animals were without blemish because both represented Christ and His two works to atone for the world.

Lev 16:10 "But the goat, on which the lot fell [to be the] (for) scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go [for a ] (to) scapegoat into the wilderness. "

Notice what I have put in bracket and highlight in red the inaccuracy of the translation. What is in parenthese and in green is what the litteral translation in the original text would say. Do look at the masoretic text with strong code available at www. scripture4all.org. I have their free software download on my computer, which is more detail than the one online. So I'm referring to their software.

Basically the translation error(& bias) is that the second goat was for Azazel and not to be Azazel.

Let me paraphrase from the literal text by only giving the literal translation provided by this software where I will supply the strong codes with it. Please go check the Masoretic text yourself at Scripture4All Link if you really want to be objective about this and know the truth about God's plan of salvation.

Lev 16:10 "But the goat, on which the lot fell over-him (5921) for-goat-of-departure (5799) shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him and to-send-away-of[/i] (7971) him (853) to-goat-of-departure (5799) the-wilderness-ward (4057)"

Above is the literal translation of the Hebrew are in bold and italic font. As you can see the goat that the lot fell on was FOR the scapegoat. It was not the scapegoat itself. And in the later half of the text, that goat (that the lot fell on) was sent away TO the scapegoat in the wilderness.

This was fufilled when Jesus was baptised(=death of 1st goat for the Lord) and then the Holy Spirit(the fit man) led him(live 2nd goat for Azazel) in the wilderness to be tempted by Satan(Azazel).

The children of Israel were anciently commanded to make an offering for the entire congregation, to purify them from ceremonial defilement. For the sacrifice a red heifer was offered, representing the more perfect offering that should redeem from the pollution of sin. This was an occasional sacrifice for the purification of all those who had necessarily or accidentally touched the dead. All who came in contact with death in any way were considered ceremonially unclean. Thus the minds of the Hebrews were forcibly impressed with the fact that death came in consequence of sin, and therefore is a representative of sin. The one heifer, the one ark, the one brazen serpent, impressively point to the one great offering, the sacrifice of Christ. {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 2}

This heifer was to be red without spot, which was a symbol of blood. It must be without blemish, and one that had never borne a yoke. Here again Christ was typified. The Son of God came voluntarily to accomplish the work of atonement. There was no obligatory yoke upon him, for he was independent and above all law. The angels, as God's intelligent messengers, were under the yoke of obligation; no personal sacrifice of theirs could atone for the guilt of fallen man. Christ alone was free from the claims of the law to undertake the redemption of the sinful race. He had power to lay down his life and to take it up again. "Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 3}

Yet this glorious being loved the poor sinner, and took upon himself the form of a servant, that he might suffer and die in man's behalf. Jesus might have remained at his Father's right hand, wearing his kingly crown and royal robes. But he chose to exchange all the riches, honor, and glory of Heaven for the poverty of humanity, and his station of high command for the horrors of Gethsemane and the humiliation and agony of Calvary. He became a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, that, by his baptism of suffering and blood, he might purify and redeem a guilty world. "Lo, I come," was the joyful assent, "to do thy will O God!" {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 4}

The sacrificial heifer was conducted without the camp, and slain in the most solemn manner. Thus Christ suffered without the gates of Jerusalem, for Calvary was outside the city walls. This was to show that Christ did not die for the Hebrews alone, but for all mankind. He proclaims to a fallen world that he has come to be their Redeemer, and urges them to accept the salvation which he offers. {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 5}

The heifer having been slain, the priest, clothed in pure white garments, took the blood in his hands as it issued from the body of the victim, and cast it toward the temple seven times. Thus Christ in his own spotless righteousness, after shedding his precious blood, entered into the heavenly sanctuary to minister in the sinner's behalf. And there the crimson current is brought into the service of reconciling God to man. "And having a high priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 6}

The body of the heifer was burned to ashes, which signified a whole and ample sacrifice. The ashes were then gathered up by a person uncontaminated by contact with the dead, and laid up in a clean place without the camp. When the ceremony of cleansing was to be performed, these were placed in a vessel containing water from a running stream. This clean and pure person then took a cedar stick with scarlet cloth and a bunch of hyssop and sprinkled the contents of the vessel upon the tent and the persons therein. This ceremony was repeated several times in order to be thorough, and was done as a purification from sin. {RH, January 9, 1883 par. 7}

Once a year, on the great Day of Atonement, the priest entered the most holy place for the cleansing of the sanctuary. The work there performed completed the yearly round of ministration. On the Day of Atonement two kids of the goats were brought to the door of the tabernacle, and lots were cast upon them, "one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat." Verse 8. The goat upon which fell the lot for the Lord was to be slain as a sin offering for the people. And the priest was to bring his blood within the veil and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. The blood was also to be sprinkled upon the altar of incense that was before the veil. {GC 419.1}

"And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: and the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited." Verses 21, 22. The scapegoat came no more into the camp of Israel, and the man who led him away was required to wash himself and his clothing with water before returning to the camp. {GC 419.2}

Important truths concerning the atonement are taught by the typical service. A substitute was accepted in the sinner's stead; but the sin was not canceled by the blood of the victim. A means was thus provided by which it was transferred to the sanctuary. By the offering of blood the sinner acknowledged the authority of the law, confessed his guilt in transgression, and expressed his desire for pardon through faith in a Redeemer to come; but he was not yet entirely released from the condemnation of the law. On the Day of Atonement the high priest, having taken an offering from the congregation, went into the most holy place with the blood of this offering, and sprinkled it upon the mercy seat, directly over the law, to make satisfaction for its claims. Then, in his character of mediator, he took the sins upon himself and bore them from the sanctuary. Placing his hands upon the head of the scapegoat, he confessed over him all these sins, thus in figure transferring them from himself to the goat. The goat then bore them away, and they were regarded as forever separated from the people. {GC 420.1}

It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scapegoat. When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty. The scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, never to come again into the congregation of Israel. So will Satan be forever banished from the presence of God and His people, and he will be blotted from existence in the final destruction of sin and sinners. {GC 422.2}

In the typical service the high priest, having made the atonement for Israel, came forth and blessed the congregation. So Christ, at the close of His work as mediator, will appear, "without sin unto salvation" (Hebrews 9:28), to bless His waiting people with eternal life. As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the head of the scapegoat, so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin. The scapegoat, bearing the sins of Israel, was sent away "unto a land not inhabited" (Leviticus 16:22); so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God's people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate, without inhabitant, and he will at last suffer the full penalty of sin in the fires that shall destroy all the wicked. Thus the great plan of redemption will reach its accomplishment in the final eradication of sin and the deliverance of all who have been willing to renounce evil. {GC 485.3}

Now the event takes place foreshadowed in the last solemn service of the Day of Atonement. When the ministration in the holy of holies had been completed, and the sins of Israel had been removed from the sanctuary by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, then the scapegoat was presented alive before the Lord; and in the presence of the congregation the high priest confessed over him "all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat." Leviticus 16:21. In like manner, when the work of atonement in the heavenly sanctuary has been completed, then in the presence of God and heavenly angels and the hosts of the redeemed the sins of God's people will be placed upon Satan; he will be declared guilty of all the evil which he has caused them to commit. And as the scapegoat was sent away into a land not inhabited, so Satan will be banished to the desolate earth, an uninhabited and dreary wilderness. {GC 658.1}