Tx for your reply Mike. I’m glad you brought it up because I think you brought a very important starting point. Can we all establish some quick common knowledge first about Jesus sacrifice/death on the cross before we move on to the other points you brought up.

1. Jesus sacrifice & death on the Cross

a. Jesus sacrifice was “ the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.” 1Jo 2:2 Do you agree that Christ died for ours and the sins of the whole world?

b. What death did Jesus died on the cross? 1st or 2nd?

c. When we repent we die to sin, and get baptized into his death(Rm 6:3). Then what death do we die when we get baptist? 1st or 2nd?

d. Since Christ didn’t physically burn on the cross, nor did we when we died into Christ death, then could you explain where is the fire?

Perhaps Elle, my post on The Sacrifice of Christ may be helpful here.

My view on this issue is, on top of Christ enduring a tremendous battle of the will, indeed from Gethsemane, He was suffering the physical and also mental anguish of the Hell Judgement that God will make all of the wicked suffer by supernaturally keeping them alive in the fires of Hell for an individually set time. The “Second Death” is actually a drawn out death, however the end result is “normative” death, with no notion/knowledge/feeling of anything then.

Please, can someone tell me where this is found in the writings of EGW? I found it in a sermon by a Davidian SDA minister, but it was his words, not EGW's. "1TG" = Vol. 1, Timely Greetings. Not an EGW publication. See: http://www.shepherds-rod-message.org/1tg/1tg47.html

What am I missing???

Oh - For what purpose would God keep people supernaturally alive to suffer? Punishment? As a warning to future generations that hey, if you break God's law, He will supernaturally burn you alive for as long as you deserve! That will keep people in line. Scared straight! This punishment can't be for the sinner, as they will eventually die. This punishment must be for the living as a warning.

This idea violates EGW own comment on punishment.Or are you saying, the sure result is supernatural torture from above? Perhaps I've completely mis-read what you are saying... I hope so.

APL, you have indeed completely misread what I said and also what the Biblical & SOP teaching is on the “wrath of God” and “ministry of Wrath” doctrine. Look it up on your own. I have not said at all that ‘God is gleefully waiting to do this to sinner’. This is only your misconstruing. It is God’s strange act and it is indeed, as I theologically understand it, for the benefit of the redeemed, who will continue to be free moral being who can sin in the future if they so choose, who will see what sinning against God justly and naturally deserves; but first and foremost it is to exact the just wrath of God upon sin and sinners. Jesus incurred that wrath for all who accept His sacrifice, but those who reject it will have to incur it upon themselves.

When you will explain how a human being can live for “days” in a lake of fire, then you will have explained away my factually descriptive life sustaining, “supernatural” action here. I have dealt with this issue in detail in this commonly posted in thread (e.g,, Post #131390ff), surprised you missed it, so you can read my views on it there.

Tx APL for pointing this out. I ask specifically if this quote was EGW as I couldn't find it also when this quote came out on another forum on Adventist Online . The person that quoted it answered me with a bunch of EGW quotes and then said the following concerning that quote
So if this is a Sheperd Rod quote then I misunderstood his answer and I wrongly assumed it was from one of EGW publication that is not available online.

So my mistake and I am deeply sorry for misinforming everyone.

Again APL I appreciate for bringing this up as I really do not want to misinformed anyone.

I can understandly see how you were brought to that wrong assumption Elle. It can and has happened to most people. (Case in point, the widely claimed SDA assumption that the Library of Congress itself had said the Desire of Ages was its best book on the life of Christ - see here).

How, now, does that correction affect your foundational view here of: ‘Law of Moses types being a requirement for all doctrines’?

Nope!

I see my link in my post above got messed up. Correct link on Adventist Online here :

My question actually was “how...”, not ‘does...?’ So it does not affect your view either way??! That does not seem to be exegetically responsible, nor logically sequitur, to me, especially given your topic opening statement which I saw was only theologically plausible because of that assumed EGW statement (it was further odd to me that you were actually quoting the SOP in support):



I however did not see that it applied as you had claimed, as “types” are found throughout the Bible and not just in the books of Moses, among my other mentioned reasons in this thread.

So what then/now is your Scriptural or SOP “foundation”/support for that hermeneutical requirement??

How does it effect my view? ---> absolutly has no effect for it was not my foundation. The Bible is my foundation for all truth. It’s been like this for two years now. I provided that “supposively” EGW quote because most of you take EGW’s words to interpret for you the Bible and is your foundation. I like that quote because it was short, simple and right to the point. However, I wasn’t aware that it wasn’t EGW and that’s what I appologized for saying that it was and misinforming everyone. EGW has provided many others more lenghty ones which I have read on the forums posted by others. I did save up a few, but I don’t want to get into it using EGW to prove or disprove. The Bible is what the Lord has given us and Is sufficient.

This generation and most of all the generations since God spoke at Mt Sinai the Laws to Moses, men has depended on man to tell them what God had said. That’s the biggest flaw with the Israelites even when Moses himself was the man chosen.

There are special blessings to dig for yourself in scriptures and learn to hear God speak to you personally. This is what binds your soul to the Lord – hearing God for yourself. This is what 1Jn 2:27 says ” But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. This is what people are being robbed from when they depend on second hand teachings.

Now concerning the Laws of Moses to be the foundation of all truth. It always been. I have already provided a short study of it in Post #135199 . There’s much more plus the test of a prophet which is based on the law. What other law is there beside what is given to Moses which we all call “The Laws of Moses”. These are proven LAWS, approved and supported by Jesus Himself, and not mere theories or speeches of prophets that needs to be tested against the Law and views are limited and is spoken to via dark speeches.

Just the fact that it is call LAWs-- it is proof that it is the foundation. And it’s not only the laws that is pronounced at the foot of Sinai or given on the mountain top. The laws are written everywhere in the 5 books of Moses including Genesis. Paul says that the Law(Law of Moses) is Spiritual and we all know that it is prophetic. It is our duty to come to know their spiritual and prophetic meanings so to come to know God's mind and heart in regards to the plan of salvation and how He rules and subdue people in His Kingdom that is soon coming.

Even Jesus used the Law of Moses to teach the disciples for 40 days. He also used the writings of the prophets which are prophetic application of the Law and are not the law itself.

Knowing the Laws of Moses is the most essential foundation we need first before trying to understand the Prophets or other writings. We have neglected that study for we have been taught that these laws are nailed to the cross and is not relevant to us today.

So here we’ve been doubled robbed (1)having man interpret Scriptures (2)deprived of studying the only foundation of all truth.