A couple of comments.

1. We are told that there will be many martyrs, and that the future persecution will be worse than in the Dark Ages. I am thinking in particular of these quotes:





I don't know the proportion of martyrs to those who are translated.

2. These martyrdoms occur before the close of probation, not after. Presumably this is also when the two witnesses are most active, if we consider "witness" in the usual sense of proclaiming the three angels' messages and asking people to make a choice for God.

Such proclamation after the close of probation would have no point, although it's still possible that the witnesses could serve some other role then, for example by testifying to the universe that they are fully dependent on Christ to get them through the time of Jacob's trouble.

3. I know of a couple of places in the sequence where the wicked exult in apparent triumph that they've silenced God's people. This may correspond to Revelation 11:9-10. I am thinking of these quotes:





4. The second of these quotes corresponds to the time of the seventh plague, when the special resurrection occurs. We know that those who died in the faith of the third angel's message will be resurrected at this point:



This group presumably includes the martyrs already mentioned, who apparently come back to life in relatively short order (Revelation 11:11-13).

5. Whether or not the Bible is banned in the future, it seems pretty clear that its witness will be nullified, as will the witness of the people who proclaim its truths.

Interestingly enough, EGW applies Amos 8:11-12 to this period, and talks about how there will be a famine for the Word:



This is not so much a literal famine for the Word in the sense of banning the Bible, but is more a famine in the sense that the wicked have gone so far that the Spirit and Bible can no longer reach them.

I'm not certain how this concept ties in with Revelation 11, but it might be worth thinking about.

My study has always focused on Daniel and Revelation as an extension of it. In Daniel 1 the health message is encountered when Daniel and the three worthies refuse to eat the king's diet. Thus in Defying Destiny, Daniel's Apocalyptic Code Revealed, The Last Church Meets the Obama-Nation, and Echoes of Doomsday; I take on the issue that our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and link obedience in seemingly little things to victories in much greater things.

Those that failed the dietary test in Daniel are never heard from again in Daniel. They are not recorded as men of honor in Babylon and they did not stand the test of the fiery furnace.

I also link Christ's casting the devils into the swine with Communion. Those that eat at Christ's table are professing that they are taking Jesus as their indwelling Savior. Is it possible for Christ to dwell in an individual that knowingly eats as food that which Jesus cast devils into?

There are many other examples in my books that incorporate our health message into the loud cry, but my heaviest focus is to understand the prophecies that strengthen our faith in God.

We don't know what is going to happen tomorrow, but God has told Daniel what was to happen in his day, in future kingdoms, and in our day. And God got it right. Bible Prophecy is proof that God is and since we can trust His word that seeks to prepare us to make it through the endtime events, we can trust His word that declares His love for us.

As the health message is the hand on the arm of prophecy, I give more time to the larger arm than the smaller hand. I do include the health message because it is need to know material.

And I am actively trying to live it. I am a vegan. I could be working as an RN in a hospital, but in my 61st year, I realize that I have not been as active as I should have been when younger because I had some really soft jobs and I spend hours every day on the computer reading the Bible, writing articles and corresponding; so I work out in the field where I get fresh air, sunshine, gallons of water, and enough exercise to wear me out. Sometimes I have to cut my time back or take a day off in the week to rest up. It does not pay the bills well, but the Lord has led me to this situation and I give it my all.

And there is a blessing there. I earn enough to buy some of my books so that I can give them away. I can only afford about 30-copies a month because I have a 8 year old that needs food and clothes and a christian education and everything an 8-year old needs.

Please pray that the Lord will provide us a house to live in soon and tuition is due soon. We are staying with my mom and it is so cramped.

My 14-year old is living with my wife so I don't have the expenses of caring for both girls, but I will be the one to pay tuition for both or they won't go to Church School.

As I read prophecy, there are allot of folks that are going to be allot more worse off in a very short time. So please pray for them as well.

Thank you for explaining that. I find it very hard to eat vegan (and more than just that: healthy) at church and wondered how those who are looking for the soon return views the health message.

Here are a few more 'obscure' statements from the SOP that need more attention and discussion IMO.

I readily see, based upon what the properly analyzed facts show in regards to the SOP’s statements on prophetic time after 18844, that any such EGW statements (pointedly future-casted statements which quote prophecies that include time elements), involve any aspect of that prophecy except for a literal/symbolic definite reckoning of that time element. Thus for the 19MR quoting, the “42 months” in Rev 13:5 would not (again) have a definite fulfillment, but as shown above in Post #134837, would be spiritually indicative of what type fulfillment to expect in the future.



Succinctly said here, It is clear to me from the context of that quoted statement that EGW had here in mind “Daniel prophecies” and not pointedly his time elements. Thus also “prophetic events” [“periods” = “seasons”] leading up to the great consummation.



Quite interesting... “our”... so EGW inclusively did not believe that her on contributing exposition of Scripture were inerrant and infallible. The wider context is indeed quite pointed against such a view.

I agree NJK, that is truly what she's saying. She was not infallable in her prophetic and doctrinal expositions. This is rather disturbing to most conservative Adventists like myself, but here she puts her own fallibility in black and White. Brothers and sisters, we can't let this shake our faith in her inspiration. But on the other hand we have to take this difficult statement as it reads. Her statement of her own fallibility here is certainly consistent with her counsel to base all doctrines on the Bible alone and not on her writings.

This shows that she rightly understood the gift of prophecy and as stated in this Post #134871 direct revelations of her fall into a different category than her “according to [her] knowledge (then)” statements

(By the way, if you reread carefully what EGW said and what this involved/implied, you would see that my other words there do have their pertinent place. As I see it, this helps to avoid quibbling follow up questions/comments (which are much more time consuming/wasting than just reading those (possibly pre-emptive) qualifying words...as is this editing a quote of my statement for that matter), as those probably overlooked points are thus emphasized and/or pointed out. So this exclusion of them actually over/under-generalizes and over/under-applies what she is saying, e.g., the relation of that statement to the above mentioned direct revelations.)

Thus, e.g., in regards to her ‘end of all prophetic time’ direct revelation (which she also indicates is not merely non-second coming prophecies (if there were/are actually any such prophecies in the Bible), that matter has been injunctively, directly and unequivocally settled by God’s Himself.

Ellen White was teachable. She once told a man who was teaching that pork was an unclean food to keep it to himself if God was leading him to that understanding because God had not seen fit to share that teaching with the church. Then she had the vision of the health message and got on the band wagon.

So she did progress in her understanding.

But more often than not her positions are sound and not in need of change, it is how successive generations of SDA scholars have turned some of them inside out by not understanding what she wrote and explaining her views as though they were the same as how they read them like that nonsense that there is no time prophecy after 1844.

Having seen many examples of this with some SDA scholars, I agree. However many have, through proper scholarship, established, even surfacely “rescued”, many of the statements she made which seemed to not be in harmony with the Bible, or even rationally logical.



From your responses thus far in this thread I have not seen that you have proven your case for this “nonsense” claim. And it actually makes perfect sense since ‘a day in Bible prophecy symbolically represents a year’ as proven in Church History. So you’ll also need to provide Biblical/SOP support why time prophecies beyond 1844 should be interpreted in a ‘day for day” way.

And the “sensical” fact is, as stated before, as never before, in the time of the end, the Second Coming of Jesus can occur at any fitting moment and is not restricted by time. (= Rev 22:7, 12, 20's “soon/quickly”).

There are two issues with her time prohibition statements: 1)Are they direct revelations as you believe or are they her views and 2) Are her statements on this as broad as the main body of conservative Adventists think. NJK, I haven't studied the first issue. Can you set out your case by underlining the parts of her quotes that you think support the notion that she was directly shown by God the correct interpretation of the 'time no longer' phrase in Revelation 10:6 and any other related passages.