HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Andrew, Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield
1325 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,232
Posts196,195
Members1,325
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
asygo 29
Rick H 15
kland 15
November
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,205
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (Karen Y, dedication, Kevin H, 2 invisible), 2,522 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 10 of 18 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 17 18
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: Rosangela] #135295
07/19/11 05:00 PM
07/19/11 05:00 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
If what you are saying is true, why is it that the skin of Eskimos has not made the color adaptation and become lighter after 2000 years?


Because, as my view had implied, not one single person has lived for those 2000 years, (vs. the 438, if not more, years of those living right after the Flood) where their body would have been so constantly affected by an excess or a lack of sunlight to cause a permanent coping recoding in their DNA to deal with this, which then would be passed on, and defaulty implemented in offsprings from their birth. Our current average lifespan of 70-80 years with, moreover a variously sheltered lifestyle, is, according to my hypothesis/theory/understanding not enough to cause this (permanent) DNA recoding.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: Rosangela] #135441
07/29/11 04:42 PM
07/29/11 04:42 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Re: #4
I don't believe that all of our current races were borne on the ark. In that sense, you and I agree. However, I do believe that there was sufficient variety represented on the ark to pass on the diversity which we now have.

If you look at at people who live for generations in the hot sun, you will not see that their color changes because of it. At least, I have not seen that. Look at the Middle East, for example. How many of the so-called "Arabs" are black? Do they not live in some of the hotter and more desert-covered terrains on the planet? Why should they not be much nearer to ebony in their appearance? Genetics are not quickly changed by a little sunshine. Wrinkles may come. Dark tans may come. But permanently black or wrinkled skin in one's progeny does not come.

So, I would return the question to you--where do you think the black color would have "evolved?"
Where?
Ummmm.... in the hot sun?

Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: kland] #135442
07/29/11 04:49 PM
07/29/11 04:49 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,509
Midland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
First of all, it does not explain the clear climate and skin color correlation. I.e, hotter climates = darker skin | colder climates = lighter skin, and then there are the in between color of the Middle East peoples.

How do you explain the fact that the Eskimos of Alaska have a dark skin, although this northern region does not receive much UV radiation?
Not much? Could you give some quantitative comparisons?

Quote:
Besides, climate changes became pronounced after the flood, and it was only natural that people with a lighter skin would seek the regions with colder climates to live in.

Huh? Why would it be "natural" for lighter skinned people to seek colder climates? If you switched that around and said that people who sought colder climates (actually, more non-equatorial) became lighter skinned, I would agree. Those genes would serve no purpose and die out. "Adaptation" only occurs with death over time.

Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: kland] #135446
07/29/11 11:18 PM
07/29/11 11:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Not much? Could you give some quantitative comparisons?

This is from 2009, but it will do for purposes of comparison:

Average UV index for Alaska, North Pole:
January 0.27
February 0.5
March 1.36
April 2.61
May 3.97
June 4.28
July 4.08
August 3.26
September 1.59
October 0.6
November 0.21
December 0.1
The Average UV Index for 2009 was 1.87
http://www.homefacts.com/uvindex/Alaska/Fairbanks-North-Star-County/North-Pole.html

Average UV index for Miami (which is not in the Equator, but 1,779 miles from it):
January 5.83
February 6.78
March 9.05
April 10.58
May 10.16
June 10.64
July 11.57
August 11.34
September 9.82
October 8.01
November 5.52
December 4.47
The Average UV Index for 2009 was 8.54
http://www.homefacts.com/uvindex/Florida/Miami-Dade-County/Miami.html

In Honolulu, Hawaii, the Average UV Index for 2009 was 9.17.
http://www.homefacts.com/uvindex/Hawaii/Honolulu-County/Honolulu.html

In a city located in the Equator, the UV Index is, most of the year, extreme (above 11).

Quote:
Huh? Why would it be "natural" for lighter skinned people to seek colder climates?

Because, of course, the lighter your skin the less tolerance you'll have for sun exposure.

Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: Rosangela] #135447
07/30/11 12:14 AM
07/30/11 12:14 AM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: kland
Huh? Why would it be "natural" for lighter skinned people to seek colder climates?


Because, of course, the lighter your skin the less tolerance you'll have for sun exposure.


That may surfacely seem to be likely, however, as already explained in Post #135256, that does not seem to be the reason for the chosen destinations for post-flood migration. It seems most sequitur to me that the migration came first and then people had to cope with whatever climate they were in, especially as they probably did not have much options for another place without generating a serious conflict with an already occupying group of people.

Also, as EGW states (3SG 78.2), the area where (I extrapolate) Eden and its surrounding was and where most people lived was, because of its elevated populating, was destroyed more than other (uninhabited, even vacant) parts the Earth. (As I see it, the current predominantly barren and desert relief Middle East and Northern Africa). So many people would have preferred going to further places within the contiguous Europe-Asia Continent to find more fertile places to settle in.

Also I see it as logical that people living immediately after the Flood were much healthier in every aspect than people today (which I why I see that they lived ca. 430+ years). They thus would have been able to much better tolerate sunlight exposure, and probably did not have cases of sunlight caused skin cancer as we readily see today. They may not have experienced sun burns, even while they may be tanning.

So to me the darker and lighter skin colors came about simply by the various climate where those most early post flood people persisted in living. And all started by being tanned.

Also your “less tolerance” claim does not explain why many lighter skin people live in e.g., Florida, and if it was geopolitically and socio-economically seamlessly “easy” to do, many would live in more Southern, hotter regions, e.g., Cuba, Jamaica, and Other Carribean and (northern) South America regions.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: NJK Project] #135452
07/30/11 04:53 AM
07/30/11 04:53 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
A very interesting map of the racial distribution of the three primary races (European, Asian, Negroid) as of 1911, still in Mrs. White's day, and somewhat ahead of the global age of travel, can be found here:

http://www.emersonkent.com/map_archive/world_races_1911.htm

Of course, you will notice that some of the migrations of peoples are already in evidence there, such as the darkening of the south-east US, and the Europeans represented in the southern tip of Africa. But if you consider for a moment that both Africa and South America have long traditions with the native peoples there, one might wonder why, if Africans got black through sun exposure, the same did not happen to the the South Americans who are at the very same latitudes.

Again, genotypes have not been proven to "evolve" to black as a result of sun exposure. Nor has the reverse ever been shown to be the case. I think most any bright young, up-and-coming scholar in the scientific world who proposed that black people who had moved to England would in a calculated number of generations, even if strictly marrying with only their own kind, "evolve" into "whites," would be laughed to scorn. Any scientist making such fanciful claims would be held in derision in the scientific community. There is simply no proof of it. Of course, they might say that if we were to give it a few million years that it might occur, but I don't know of any scientist who would risk tarnishing his reputation by even considering such a preposterous evolution in but a few generations. "Few" is a relative term, of course. Six thousand years of life yields very "few" generations in the minds of most of today's scientists.

Considering that for the first 2000 years of this earth's history only 20 generations are recorded in the Bible, that significantly reduces the total possible number of generations that we might arrive at today.

How many generations would it take for "whites" to evolve into "blacks," given a hot, sunny environment?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: NJK Project] #135462
07/30/11 05:25 PM
07/30/11 05:25 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Also your “less tolerance” claim does not explain why many lighter skin people live in e.g., Florida, and if it was geopolitically and socio-economically seamlessly “easy” to do, many would live in more Southern, hotter regions, e.g., Cuba, Jamaica, and Other Carribean and (northern) South America regions.

???
Obviously I refer to the time when the several peoples first began to look for a place to settle in after the flood, not to modern times. Examples from the modern world make no sense in this discussion. Our lifestyle today is completely different from then.

Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: Green Cochoa] #135463
07/30/11 05:57 PM
07/30/11 05:57 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
A very interesting map of the racial distribution of the three primary races (European, Asian, Negroid) as of 1911, still in Mrs. White's day, and somewhat ahead of the global age of travel, can be found here:

http://www.emersonkent.com/map_archive/world_races_1911.htm


That does not address my hypothesis. I claim that this change occurred in the first 430+ to even, roughly speaking 800-1100 years (i.e., 2-3 400/300 year generations), right after the flood. You chart is only showing where those races have globally migrated by 1911. Who populous, if any, even lived in areas such a Australia, North and South America before relatively recent times (ca. 1492)??

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Of course, you will notice that some of the migrations of peoples are already in evidence there, such as the darkening of the south-east US, and the Europeans represented in the southern tip of Africa. But if you consider for a moment that both Africa and South America have long traditions with the native peoples there, one might wonder why, if Africans got black through sun exposure, the same did not happen to the the South Americans who are at the very same latitudes.


By the time that “South America” was, even indigenously, populated, in the second half of the 20th century, according to my hypothesis which require a long life by a single ancestor, sun exposure would not be long enough to effectuate this permanent UV protection genetic change.

And if that were substantively applicable, unlike the pre-flood populated, “African/Middle East” Region, which was more severely damaged than the unpopulated South American regions, indeed as seen by the extreme difference in foliage, anyone living in the tropics of South America would predominantly, even deliberately be living under and/or seeking the available natural sun shade. That was not, as enduringly seen today, an availability for post-flood people who lived in the Africa/Middle East region.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Again, genotypes have not been proven to "evolve" to black as a result of sun exposure. Nor has the reverse ever been shown to be the case. ... There is simply no proof of it.


I do not even think it has even been hypothesized let alone, then tested and proven.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
I think most any bright young, up-and-coming scholar in the scientific world who proposed that black people who had moved to England would in a calculated number of generations, even if strictly marrying with only their own kind, "evolve" into "whites," would be laughed to scorn. Any scientist making such fanciful claims would be held in derision in the scientific community.


Objection!! Speculating! Indeed this is just pure subjective/biased speculation on your part and shows/proves absolutely nothing factual.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Of course, they might say that if we were to give it a few million years that it might occur, but I don't know of any scientist who would risk tarnishing his reputation by even considering such a preposterous evolution in but a few generations. "Few" is a relative term, of course. Six thousand years of life yields very "few" generations in the minds of most of today's scientists.

Considering that for the first 2000 years of this earth's history only 20 generations are recorded in the Bible, that significantly reduces the total possible number of generations that we might arrive at today.


Obviously you don’t understand my hypothesis. I advance/posit a single generation/person, living 430 years, with constant UV exposure or deprivation to the point where the body genetically, permanently reacts, resulting in this altered skin color coding being fully passed on the next offspring. No “evolving” or ‘gradually become darker/lighter. It is, according to my view, a single generation affectation.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
How many generations would it take for "whites" to evolve into "blacks," given a hot, sunny environment?


According to my hypothesis: one from a 430+ year, 12-16 hours per day, tropical, unhindered suntanning.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: Rosangela] #135464
07/30/11 05:58 PM
07/30/11 05:58 PM
NJK Project  Offline
Banned Member
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,098
Laval, Quebec
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: NJK Project
Also your “less tolerance” claim does not explain why many lighter skin people live in e.g., Florida, and if it was geopolitically and socio-economically seamlessly “easy” to do, many would live in more Southern, hotter regions, e.g., Cuba, Jamaica, and Other Carribean and (northern) South America regions.

???
Obviously I refer to the time when the several peoples first began to look for a place to settle in after the flood, not to modern times. Examples from the modern world make no sense in this discussion. Our lifestyle today is completely different from then.


I am fully aware of that and that emphasized specification still does not validate your claim here. Why would light skin people (and most likely equally, if not much more fully clothed than those in our day) today be able to “better tolerate” the sunlight??

Also my view is that all people were tanned to start with and those after the flood who went to live in climates with less sun became gradually then “genetically permanently” lighter over their 400+ year life while the opposite occurred for people living in tropical and “uncovered” places, particularly with those who wore very little clothes.


“Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.” Matt 25:45 NJK Project
Re: Ellen White & Amalgamation of Man and Beast [Re: NJK Project] #135466
07/30/11 06:19 PM
07/30/11 06:19 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Why would light skin people (and most likely equally, if not much more fully clothed than those in our day) today be able to “better tolerate” the sunlight??

You yourself pointed out that our lifestyle is now much more sun-sheltered than it was then.

Quote:
Also my view is that all people were tanned to start with and those after the flood who went to live in climates with less sun became gradually then “genetically permanently” lighter over their 400+ year life while the opposite occurred for people living in tropical and “uncovered” places, particularly with those who wore very little clothes.

What do you mean is that acquired characteristics can be passed on genetically?

Page 10 of 18 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 17 18

Moderator  dedication 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 11/21/24 11:03 AM
No mail in Canada?
by dedication. 11/20/24 05:53 PM
Fourth quarter, 2024, The Gospel of John
by asygo. 11/20/24 02:31 AM
The 2024 Election, the Hegelian Dialectic
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 08:26 PM
"The Lord's Day" and Ignatius
by dedication. 11/15/24 02:19 AM
The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans
by dedication. 11/14/24 04:00 PM
Will Trump be able to lead..
by dedication. 11/13/24 07:13 PM
Is Lying Ever Permitted?
by kland. 11/13/24 05:04 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 11/13/24 04:06 PM
Profiles Of Jesus In Zecharia
by dedication. 11/13/24 02:23 AM
Good and Evil of Higher Critical Bible Study
by dedication. 11/12/24 07:31 PM
The Great White Throne
by dedication. 11/12/24 06:39 PM
A god whom his fathers knew not..
by TruthinTypes. 11/05/24 12:19 AM
Understanding the Battle of Armageddon
by Rick H. 10/25/24 07:25 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by asygo. 11/21/24 01:08 PM
The Church is Suing the State of Maryland
by Rick H. 11/16/24 04:43 PM
Has the Catholic Church Changed?
by TheophilusOne. 11/16/24 08:53 AM
Understanding the 1,260-year Prophecy
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 11:10 PM
Dr Ben Carson: Church and State
by ProdigalOne. 11/15/24 10:43 PM
Dr Conrad Vine Banned
by Rick H. 11/15/24 06:11 AM
Understanding the 1290 & 1335 of Daniel 12?
by dedication. 11/05/24 03:16 PM
Private Schools
by dedication. 11/04/24 01:39 PM
The 1260 Year Prophecy & The Roman Catholic Church
by dedication. 10/22/24 01:32 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1