"Which death serves justice if you refuse to accept Christ? If not the first death, why not?"

If the first death served justice there would be no need for the second death. As I mentioned before, if the wages of sin is the first death, and that is what Christ died, why do believers still die the first death?

In what sense do you think Jesus "died" the second death?

What is the difference between the first and second deaths?

What accounts for the difference?

If the first death isn't the "wages of sin" what is it?

In the following passage it implies Jesus satisfied the just and loving demands of law and justice before He died.


Jesus won the victory before He died. His death wasn't necessary to win the victory, so, why did He die?

One could assume that, but the Bible plainly says that the wages of sin is death. The thing that drove Paul was the death that Christ died,"even the death of the cross." "I determined to know nothing among you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
"He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"

What was Jesus referring to when He said "It is finished"?
Isn't He saying I have lived a perfect life in human flesh, refuting Satan's claim that God was unjust in giving a law that could not be kept, and also I have taken the sins of the world upon myself and am dying the death that brings, so that men can live. I believe the statement includes His dying. If it doesn't
then we are left with the implication that it was not needed,
and therefore pointless. Yet the Scriptures repeatedly emphasise that, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin."

I'm not discounting the death of Jesus. God forbid. But the fact is - Jesus finished what He came to accomplish before He died. His physical death, therefore, did not add to it. Obviously, it served some other important purpose. I suspect He entered and exited the domain of death to demonstrate His lordship and ownership of the keys of hell and of death. He earned this right by tasting and conquering the second death. Had He succumbed to it, death would have triumphed over Him. On the day of atonement it was the scapegoat who bore the sins of the saved away from the camp and into the wilderness. Satan will perish with our sins. He will die the second death with our sins.

Q1 : Jesus accomplish what? We know it is not all finish—right? -- as things are still progressing and there’s more work ascribed for Him to do in the Bible.

Q2 : Can you be more specific of the other important purpose is here?

I appreciate your honesty here that you don’t know and definitely we need to go in the Bible, especially in the TYPE, to see what the Lord revealed to us.


This would require another topic to study Lev 14 and Lev 16 taking text by text. But for convenience sake, I will give the main outlined below.

the scapegoat of Lev 16
I have shown in the Is the Scapegoat Satan or Jesus? topic what the literal masoretic text read. Azazel(literally = goat god -- also known as Pan) is a better translation than “Scapegoat”. Lev 16:8 “ …one” (goat) lot for the Lord, and the other” (goat) lot for Azazel … 10. But the goat, on which the lot fell over him for Azazel, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go to Azazel into the wilderness. ” Jesus began the fulfillment of this on a personal level on the day of Atonement when he was baptized(submission = 2nd death) and God sent a dove(ref to Lev 14) and the Holy Spirit lead him(alive) to the wilderness for Azazel.

It is Christ who bears all our sins on Him. Not Satan. Christ is the red Heifer that was sacrificed OUTSIDE the camp that cleanses all things. Not Satan. It is Christ that will consume sins with His Glory/Victory, thus swallowing up death(mortality). Not Satan. Thus, it is only Christ that can remove sins that can only be done by His Glory. Not Satan.

1C 15:54 “ So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal (thnetos, liable to die) shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. ”

2C 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

I have expanded on this in page 33 post #135881 at the link here.

Two TYPES (Lev 14 & 16) = Two Witnesses
The type and shadow of the sacrificial service of the two goats at the DOA was repeated in the cleansing of the leprosy in the two doves. Truth should not be based on only one text. According to the Law, it takes 2 or 3 witnesses to establish anything including Truth. “And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.” Gn 41:32 Thus God has given us 2 clear direct Types in the laws of Moses to clear up any possible misunderstanding. Plus we have all the other Laws that repeats again and again the same message and supplementing more details.

Two Doves and Two Goats = Two Coming/Works of Christ
These reveal the process by which Yah will restore us to full fellowship with Him. There’s two doves and two goats because there is two coming of Christ by which He will fulfill two main works. Christ finished the first work at His first coming. However, Christ works didn’t end at the cross for in just 50 days Christ fulfilled another work at Pentecost. Pentecost(the second feast) is an intermediate work between Passover(1st Feast) and Tabernacle(3rd Feast).

What Christ ended at the cross was the work of justification which is represented by the Passover feast, which He died at the appointed time – at Passover. Christ does not need to die again. That’s is finish and done. We are still in the intermediate work of the Pentecost – the offering of the 2 loaves of leavened bread.

The Second Work of Christ

The 2nd dove dipped in the blood and set free in the open field(world) or the 2nd goat sent in the wilderness represent Christ second coming and work in the whole world depicted in Rev 19:11-13 “…behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war… 13. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God” . This was also typified by Joseph. “And they took Joseph’s coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood” Gn 37:31.

Christ second work is based on His first work. And both these works have a purpose to “make atonement” -- ”cleanse us” –- “consume sin” -–“swallow up death” -- “destroy the work of the devil” – “take away sins” -- “remove sins”. All these words describes what it will fulfill. The first work of Christ – a death work -- covers sins and imputes righteousness to us. The second work – a living work – makes us righteous because it removes the sins from us.

Just like the covering of the first work of Christ has covered sin since the fall, also the sanctification process of the living work has been experienced by only some believers by faith since Adam. However, no one has experienced immortality by the full measure of the Spirit of Christ. This partial and lifetime process work of sanctification was manifested by many individual since Adam. And at Pentecost, it was the first time this was experienced by a corporate body at the same time in a greater measure at once. However, what they received was only a downpayment of the Spirit (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5). It was only a sample of what is to be expected at Jesus 2nd coming when tabernacle will be fulfilled on the firstfruit of the believers and their work with Christ to subdue the whole earth.

The full fulfillment of the second work in a corporate body of believers(the firstfruits – who will be the first to be clothed with immortality)and their work with Christ as head depicted in Rev 19:11-21 and other places did not happen yet.

- "Jesus finished what He came to accomplish before He died."
That does not seem an accurate statement when the main thing He came to accomplish was His death. How can you die the second death without dying?
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

"The priests and rulers were amazed to find that Christ was dead... It was an unheard-of thing for one to die within six hours of crucifixion. The priests wished to make sure of the death of Jesus, and at their suggestion a soldier thrust a spear into the Saviour's side. From the wound thus made, there flowed two copious and distinct streams, one of blood, the other of water.

But it was not the spear thrust, it was not the pain of the cross, that caused the death of Jesus. That cry, uttered "with a loud voice" (Matthew 27:50; Luke 23:46), at the moment of death, the stream of blood and water that flowed from His side, declared that He died of a broken heart. His heart was broken by mental anguish. He was slain by the sin of the world." {DA 772.2}

Elle,

First, to "bear" sins means just to be legally responsible for these sins.
Second, all the sacrificial victims which represent Christ are slain; this goat is not slain, and “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins" (Heb. 9:22).


Again, this goat was not sacrificed, either inside or outside the camp.


Since you are speaking about types, this is what the type shows: after the high priest has finished the atonement for the sanctuary and for the people with the blood of the goat for the Lord, the high priest puts the legal responsibility for the sins of the people upon this goat, which is not slain for these sins, and sends him away to a solitary land, where he will eventually die and never come back again.
How does this apply to Christ? Which events are symbolized here?

Really? Can you supply references from the Bible and/or EGW to support this, that this is a "legal" issue?

Isa 53:4 AKJV Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Think of Christ's humiliation. He took upon Himself fallen, suffering human nature, degraded and defiled by sin. He took our sorrows, bearing our grief and shame. He endured all the temptations wherewith man is beset. He united humanity with divinity: a divine spirit dwelt in a temple of flesh. He united Himself with the temple. "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," because by so doing He could associate with the sinful, sorrowing sons and daughters of Adam (YI Dec. 20, 1900). {4BC 1147.4}

Yes, he bore our sins, but was it a legal issue or did you literally bear our sins?

In your conception, APL, what do the following passages mean?

Leviticus 24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, 'Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.'

Leviticus 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle’s wife, he hath uncovered his uncle’s nakedness. They shall bear their sin: they shall die childless.

Numbers 9:13 But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and forbeareth to keep the Passover, even the same soul shall be cut off from among his people, because he brought not the offering of the LORD in its appointed season. That man shall bear his sin.

In the sanctuary service there were two goats: the Lord's goat and the scapegoat (see Lev. 16). BOTH bore the sins of all Israel. The one represented Christ, the other Satan.

The reason they both bear the sins is that Satan does not bear our sins unless we have cast them upon the innocent Lamb. If we have not confessed our sins, they remain upon us, and we must pay their penalty ourselves. If, however, we confess them, thus placing them upon Jesus, they will be transferred to Satan who will bear the ultimate responsibility for them. In a sense, such sins are then "paid for" twice, but Jesus' paid for them undeservedly, so they have been transferred to the Great Deceiver and Instigator of all such sins.

Two goats--both died. But the Lord's goat died first.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.