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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: dedication]
#136458
10/04/11 10:36 PM
10/04/11 10:36 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2021
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
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1) The prophecy is on "definite" time.
2) The prophecy regards the second advent.
1) Definite time is ascribing a certain definite number of days from one event to the other 2) The prophecy regards ANY of the events of the last days, not just the second coming. "There will always be false and fanatical movements made by persons in the church who claim to be led of God--those who will run before they are sent and will give day and date for the occurrence of unfulfilled prophecy. The enemy is pleased to have them do this, for their successive failures and leading into false lines cause confusion and unbelief.--2SM 84 (1897). {LDE 35.2} This is one of those types of situations that makes me extra leery of compilations. In this particular case, it appears the White Estate has been egregiously irresponsible in terms of accurately portraying Mrs. White's intent. I am unable to find any place in her writings where the full letter from which your quote is extracted has been published. In fact, it appears that they pieced it out by the sentence. Here are two other sentences and/paragraphs that have also come from that same letter, for about as much context as I am able to procure. We are nearing the great day of God. The signs are fulfilling. And yet we have no message to tell us of the day and hour of Christ's appearing. The Lord has wisely concealed this from us that we may always be in a state of expectancy and preparation for the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven.--Letter 28, 1897. {LDE 33.3}
Christ would have everyone educate himself to calmly contemplate His second appearing. All are to search the Word of God daily, but not neglect present duties.--Letter 28, 1897. {LDE 76.3} As you can see, both of those statements are torn apart from their original contexts and placed three chapters apart in the compilation called "Last Day Events," published in 1992. Your statement from the second volume of the Selected Messages, published in 1958, is from this same letter, originally written to Brother and Sister Belden, July 29, 1897. Suffice it to say, the context of her message is clearly that of a second-advent prophecy. The "day and date" refer to setting times for Jesus' return. The "unfulfilled prophecy" is a reference to the same. Jesus' return has been prophesied since He walked this earth. Obviously, it is yet unfulfilled. Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#136464
10/05/11 12:40 AM
10/05/11 12:40 AM
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I think she wrote "unfulfilled prophecy" for a reason.
She also wrote:
"Let all our brethren and sisters beware of anyone who would set a time for the Lord to fulfill His Word in regard to His coming, or in REGARD TO ANY OTHER PROMISE HE HAS MADE of special significance. It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own power."
TM 54-55
"We are not to know the definite time either for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit or for the coming of Christ." 1SM 188
"God has not revealed to us the time when this message will close, or when probation will have an end. Those things that are revealed we shall accept...but let us not seek to know that which has been kept secret in the councils of the Almight." 1SM 191
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: dedication]
#136470
10/05/11 03:15 AM
10/05/11 03:15 AM
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SDA
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Dedication,
I think those other times of "special significance" could apply to a rather diverse group of events or circumstances, including, but not limited to, moving away from the cities, fleeing to the mountains, selling properties or giving sacrificially to the cause of God. I don't necessarily see it as specifically negating any and all prophecies.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#136473
10/05/11 05:23 AM
10/05/11 05:23 AM
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Global Moderator
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I don't necessarily see it as specifically negating any and all prophecies.
WHOA! Who said anything about negating any or all prophecies!?? Not me!!! The prophecies dealing with the crises and situations just before Christ's coming are IMPORTANT to understand! What I'm addressing is putting TIME restraints on them. We are not to tie any of them to definite time predictions.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: dedication]
#136474
10/05/11 02:02 PM
10/05/11 02:02 PM
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SDA
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Dedication,
I think we're close to the same view, only I believe that there may be prophecies based on time that do not give a time for the Second Advent, or some other not-to-known event, such as the close of probation.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: dedication]
#136475
10/05/11 02:07 PM
10/05/11 02:07 PM
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SDA
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Dedication, I agree with you. Last day events will play out according to the chronology spelled out in the SOP. Some of those events are linked to time. For example:
Yes, earth's time continues right up to the second coming, and of course the events happen in connection with our reckoning of hours and days and years. After all 167 years have gone by since 1844. And yes, there will be a number of days from the moment God steps in to deliver His people from the death decree,vindicating them before their enemies, until Jesus appears in the clouds of glory. But nobody will know how many days that will be prior to the announcement. We can't figure it out by reapplying the timelines, as it's not given to us prior to that time. Amen!
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#136476
10/05/11 02:11 PM
10/05/11 02:11 PM
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Dedication, I think we're close to the same view, only I believe that there may be prophecies based on time that do not give a time for the Second Advent, or some other not-to-known event, such as the close of probation. Are you referring to time prophecies in D&R?
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136479
10/05/11 02:26 PM
10/05/11 02:26 PM
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Dedication, I think we're close to the same view, only I believe that there may be prophecies based on time that do not give a time for the Second Advent, or some other not-to-known event, such as the close of probation. Are you referring to time prophecies in D&R? Yes, but not limited to D&R. For instance, Jesus gave prophecies regarding the end times, none of which is upon "definite time," but all of which help us to understand what is ahead and what will be the sequence of events. If we have a sequence, is that not "time" of sorts? Blessings, Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Green Cochoa]
#136486
10/05/11 03:06 PM
10/05/11 03:06 PM
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GC, which of the time prophecies in D&R do you think apply to last day events? Please do not elaborate at this point. For example, if you think the 1260 will be fulfilled, simply state when and how. For example, the 1260 starts with the enforcement of Sunday laws and ends with the close of probation.
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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844
[Re: Mountain Man]
#136487
10/05/11 03:56 PM
10/05/11 03:56 PM
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MM,
I'm still studying these points and am open to changes in them, even great changes, until I have developed my own understanding and founded it well upon Scripture (incl. Mrs. White). However, what I have generally believed includes the following:
1) The 1290 and 1335 day prophecies seem to have no practical past-fulfillment explanation. People talk about 508 AD, but what of significance happened then? It's difficult enough to establish anything for the 538 AD date, much less 508. I'm sure a great many things happened in both of those years, but for any event to be Biblically significant is a separate category.
2) I see no reason why the day-year times cannot have a second literal-time application.
3) I've generally considered the final times to have a sequence akin to the following, each in literal days.
The 1290 and the 1335 start together, the 1260 and the 1290 end together. The 1290 starts at the proclamation of the Sunday law, and the 1260 starts at its enforcement. The 30-day period between is the time of testing Ellen White speaks of for our church. The 1260 would be the time of Jacob's trouble. During the days following, the final plagues are poured out. The 1335 ends about where the day and hour get announced.
Something like that. As I said, I'm not 100% fixed on this yet, but this time sequence seems to fit what I've read in Mrs. White about the final events.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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