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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Rosangela] #136528
10/07/11 04:22 PM
10/07/11 04:22 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Yes, traits themselves are neutral. It's what we do with them that results in either sinful or sinless character. Again, traits and character are two different realities. The cultivation of sinful character is a perversion of the traits we inherit at birth. However, praise the Lord, the same traits, while we are abiding in Jesus and partaking of the divine nature, are employed to cultivate sinless character.

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Rosangela] #136538
10/08/11 12:10 AM
10/08/11 12:10 AM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Teachers are to consider that they are not dealing with angels, but human beings with like passions as they themselves have. Characters are not formed in one mold. There is every phase of character received by children as an inheritance. The defects and the virtues in traits of character are thus revealed. Let every instructor take this into consideration. Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character, as also beauty of character, will have to be met, and much grace cultivated in the instructor to know how to deal with the erring for their present and eternal good. (FE, 277, 278)

Is there such a thing as HEREDITARY "deformity of human character"? Is character part of our heredity? And a deformed one at that?

Apparently, Yes, on all three counts. And if we are to be good instructors, we must take the fact of a corrupt heredity into account.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: asygo] #136553
10/08/11 04:24 PM
10/08/11 04:24 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1} True, we inherit from our parents a predisposition to cultivate their dominate traits of character. But is is not true to say we inherit character. Our eternal destiny is based on the character we ourselves cultivate. Ellen wrote:

"God gives the talents, the powers of the mind; we form the character. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. Conflict after conflict must be waged against hereditary tendencies. {COL 331.1}

"Character cannot be bought with gold; it does not come to us by accident. Character is earned by individual effort through the merits and grace of Christ. It is formed by hard, stern battles with self. {RH, December 29, 1896 par. 2}

"The characters formed in this life will determine the future destiny. When Christ shall come, He will not change the character of any individual. Precious, probationary time is given to be improved in washing our robes of character and making them white in the blood of the Lamb. {4T 429.2}

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #136556
10/08/11 05:20 PM
10/08/11 05:20 PM
G
gordonb1  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 936
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A screaming newborn has a character.

EVERYTHING the newborn has is inherited.

_______________________

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #136557
10/08/11 09:52 PM
10/08/11 09:52 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Brazil
Quote:
Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1}

Mike, the context makes it very clear that an upright character is not inherited, as it would have been the case if Adam had not sinned.

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #136595
10/09/11 07:20 PM
10/09/11 07:20 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1}

Is it your belief that EGW was wrong when she wrote, "Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character"?

BTW, this is one reason why I believe LGT does not fully accept EGW. They reject some of her teachings, their claims to fidelity notwithstanding.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: gordonb1] #136596
10/09/11 07:21 PM
10/09/11 07:21 PM
asygo  Offline
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California, USA
Originally Posted By: gordonb1

A screaming newborn has a character.

Every parent knows this by experience.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Rosangela] #136597
10/09/11 07:21 PM
10/09/11 07:21 PM
asygo  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,615
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1}

Mike, the context makes it very clear that an upright character is not inherited, as it would have been the case if Adam had not sinned.

God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

Once again, you and I are on the same page.


By God's grace,
Arnold

1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Rosangela] #136605
10/10/11 12:01 AM
10/10/11 12:01 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
M: Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1}

R: Mike, the context makes it very clear that an upright character is not inherited, as it would have been the case if Adam had not sinned. "God gave our first parents a pure and upright character, in harmony with His law; and had they remained obedient, they would have bequeathed the same character to their posterity. {BEcho, July 29, 1895 par. 2}

Character is the result of repetitious choices and conduct. "As a rule, children inherit the dispositions and tendencies of their parents, and imitate their example; so that the sins of the parents are practiced by the children from generation to generation. {CTr 67.3}

"Children inherit inclinations to wrong, but they also have many lovely traits of character. These should be strengthened and developed, while the tendencies to evil should be carefully guarded against and repressed. {1MCP 144.4}

"Children generally inherit the peculiar traits of character which the parents possess, and in addition to all this, many come up without any redeeming influence around them. {2SM 421.3}

"Parents give the stamp of character to their children. Children that are born of these parents inherit qualities of mind from them which are of a low and base order. Satan nourishes anything tending to corruption. {SA 174.2}

"All minds are not constituted alike. Children inherit from their parents some strong tendencies. These existed in the parent, and exist intensified in the children. {HR, July 1, 1880 par. 2}

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: asygo] #136606
10/10/11 12:12 AM
10/10/11 12:12 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
M: Elsewhere Ellen makes it very clear character is not inherited. For example: "But character is not inherited." {PP 223.1}

A: Is it your belief that EGW was wrong when she wrote, "Hereditary and cultivated deformity of human character"? BTW, this is one reason why I believe LGT does not fully accept EGW. They reject some of her teachings, their claims to fidelity notwithstanding.

When we study what Ellen wrote about the topic of character, I believe it is clear she taught character is the result of repetitious choices and conduct. We inherit traits and tendencies, with which we cultivate character, but we do not inherit character.

As you know, Ellen makes it clear character will, during judgment, determine our eternal destiny. With this in mind, do you believe people will be judged based on the "character" they inherited? Ellen wrote:

"They saw that there was a great work to be done in order to obtain a fitness of character for the kingdom of God. They knew that no one could do their work for them; that no one could believe for them; that no one could form a character for them. It was an individual work, a personal effort. {RH, January 4, 1887 par. 2}

PS - Did John the Baptist, who was "filled with the Holy Ghost" from birth, inherit a holy character?

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