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Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: dedication] #136801
10/13/11 08:15 PM
10/13/11 08:15 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Actually you are quoting from one of the very FIRST visions EGW received on the matter. In that vision it all seemed to happen "simultaneously". But over time God gave her more visions filling in the details.

I agree.

Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
D: Do you really think Christ will already be on the cloud coming to earth throughout the whole of the endtime events? . . . To say Christ mounts the flaming cloud that carries Him to earth, at the beginning of the events in chapters 39-40 while she mentions it at the end, kind of throws the whole sequence of what she's saying out, unless it will be a very slowly approaching object.

M: If we take into consideration all the quotes I posted above it seems clear to me Ellen is saying several things will happen nearly simultaneously - 1) Jesus ceases mediating, 2) probation closes, 3) Jesus leaves the sanctuary bound for the east, a journey that will take "a number of days", 4) the angels begin pouring out the seven last plagues.

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: dedication] #136802
10/13/11 08:27 PM
10/13/11 08:27 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
M: If we take into consideration all the quotes I posted above it seems clear to me Ellen is saying several things will happen nearly simultaneously - 1) Jesus ceases mediating, 2) probation closes, 3) Jesus leaves the sanctuary bound for the east, a journey that will take "a number of days", 4) the angels begin pouring out the seven last plagues.

D: What do you think "bound for the east" means?

By it I mean Jesus leaves the sanctuary and begins making His way to the East. This journey will take "a number of days". Once He arrives in the East, the people of God will first recognize Him as a "small black cloud" which they will perceive as "the sign of the Son of Man". "While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days . . . ."

Quote:
And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood and he laid off his priestly garment and put on his kingly robe, took his place on the cloud which carried him to the east where it first appeared to the saints on earth, a small black cloud, which was the sign of the Son of Man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days, the Synagogue of Satan worshiped at the saints feet. Ellen G. Harmon {DS, March 14, 1846 par. 2}

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: Mountain Man] #136811
10/14/11 02:00 AM
10/14/11 02:00 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Let's see --
You believe Christ ends His work in the sanctuary, lays off his priestly garment and puts on his kingly robe and mounts the cloud that takes Him somewhere east of planet earth.

While this cloud journeys to that place in space with Jesus AND ALL THE ANGELS WITH HIM.
God in heaven (wait a minute -- I thought everyone mounted that cloud with Christ when it was time for the second coming?)

But appently not, for the seven angels with the plagues come out FROM God in the sanctuary in heaven and pour out their vials upong earth.

Revelation does not picture heaven empty at this point. There is conversation. The temple is filled with the glory of God.


How does that match with:

Quote:
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. Matt. 25:31. {AG 356.1}

"He is to be accompanied by all the hosts of Heaven. "The Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him." "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect." [MATT. 25:31; 24:31.] {GC88 321.2}


Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: Mountain Man] #136823
10/14/11 07:00 PM
10/14/11 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Did I suggest "a number of days" equals "a few days"? If I did I didn't mean to. At any rate, I suppose the expression "a number of days" can encompasses several days or more, but probably not as many as several weeks or more. I hope it lasts less than a week. Here's how she used the expression elsewhere:

Quote:
“Some of the poor were zealous to attend every conference, taking their whole families with them, consuming a number of days to get to the place of meeting . . . {LS80 264.1}
Maybe some more would be in order for you to present.

Often, she says things like, it was "not a few". I notice she did not say in this case
"While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took not a number of days"

Besides presenting to us other, "number of days", how would you expect her to say it if it did indeed take a number of days, oh, say over 1335 days?

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: Mountain Man] #136824
10/14/11 07:06 PM
10/14/11 07:06 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

By it I mean Jesus leaves the sanctuary and begins making His way to the East. This journey will take "a number of days". Once He arrives in the East, the people of God will first recognize Him as a "small black cloud" which they will perceive as "the sign of the Son of Man". "While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days . . . ."

Quote:
And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood and he laid off his priestly garment and put on his kingly robe, took his place on the cloud which carried him to the east where it first appeared to the saints on earth, a small black cloud, which was the sign of the Son of Man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days, the Synagogue of Satan worshiped at the saints feet. Ellen G. Harmon {DS, March 14, 1846 par. 2}

Yes, Jesus lays off his priestly garments and puts on His kingly robe. How much time?
And took his place on the cloud. How much time?

What, besides this quote, makes you think there is not an amount of time between leaving the sanctuary and coming to the earth. Someone had quoted that Jesus' voice would tell when He would come. All that happening in a few days seems rather .... improbable to me, and it would still be true that all that she says is to happen can still happen in a number of days, such as 1335+.

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: kland] #136894
10/17/11 03:23 PM
10/17/11 03:23 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Dedication, seems to me the Father remains in heaven while Jesus comes here to bring us home. Do you agree with what I wrote about the "number of days"?

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: Mountain Man] #136895
10/17/11 03:29 PM
10/17/11 03:29 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Besides presenting to us other, "number of days", how would you expect her to say it if it did indeed take a number of days, oh, say over 1335 days?

I suspect she would have referred to a time period encompassing more than three years with an expression like "several years".

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: Mountain Man] #136907
10/17/11 11:44 PM
10/17/11 11:44 PM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Dedication, seems to me the Father remains in heaven while Jesus comes here to bring us home. Do you agree with what I wrote about the "number of days"?


I find I'm not really in agreement with anyone on this thread.
I see the reference to the number of days from the announcement made by God concerning the time of the second coming reaching to the actual second coming. That announcement is made during the seventh plague, after God delivers His people from the death decree and shows the ten commandments from the sky.

I do not see them as refering to the beginning of the time of trouble.
They constitute only the time it takes from the announcement to that actual arrival which probably takes only a literal few days -- like 3, or 4 or 7 -- not thousands.

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: dedication] #136909
10/18/11 12:33 AM
10/18/11 12:33 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Quote:
About four months since, I had a vision of events, all in the future. And I saw the time of trouble, such as never was,--Jesus told me it was the time of Jacob's trouble, and that we should be delivered out of it by the voice of God. Just before we entered it, (1)we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the (2)four Angels cease to hold the four winds. And I saw famine, pestilence and sword, nation rose against nation, and (3)the whole world was in confusion. Then we (4)cried to God for deliverance day and night till we began to hear the bells on Jesus' garment. And I saw Jesus rise up in the Holiest, and as he came out we heard the tinkling of bells, and knew our High Priest was coming out. Then (5)we heard the voice of God which shook the heavens and earth, and gave the 144,000 the day and hour of Jesus' coming. Then the (6)saints were free, united and full of the glory of God, for he had turned their captivity. And I saw (7)a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood and he laid off his priestly garment and put on his kingly robe, took his place on the cloud which carried him to the (8)east where it first appeared to the saints on earth, a small black cloud, which was the sign of the Son of Man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days, the Synagogue of Satan worshiped at the saints feet. Ellen G. Harmon {DS, March 14, 1846 par. 2}


The parts I number in that paragraph follow the same sequence as in Great Controversy.
As to the activities of Christ, she is here focusing on Christ coming to deliver them, not on the close of probation. So she mentions Him putting on the kingly garments AFTER all the trouble as an introduction to His actual coming.

In other later and more detailed articles she places this earlier, however, since this is her first vision the emphases was on the time of trouble and the deliverance. To ignore the first part of the paragraph and insist on this aspect of Christ changing from priestly to kingly garments (which is "out of sequence" according to all the rest of her writing), as the key statement to determine a whole "time" study, well -- I can't agree with that.

Re: No Prophetic Time after 1844 [Re: dedication] #136929
10/18/11 02:51 PM
10/18/11 02:51 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Dedication, how do you understand the following sentence - "While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the east which took a number of days"?

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