Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you,

Acts 4:10 by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead,

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13:29- 30 they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead:

Romans 6:4 as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Cor. 15:15 we have testified of God that he raised up Christ:

2 Cor. 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus,

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

Eph. 1:19-20 the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

1 Thess. 1:9-10 serve the living and true God;
And wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This came up in another discussion. But it seems some here believe Christ was conscious while He was in the tomb.
It's as if they believe He was two persons in one body. The human person and another divine person. So the human person dies, but the divine person just keeps right on living, hearing, responding.

I don't see it that way.
Christ was FULLY human and fully divine, not split into two separate compartments.

When He died He was FULLY unconscious. To say otherwise would be saying He didn't really die.

Whatever, "His divinity did not die" means, it did NOT mean that half of Him just kept right on living in a conscious way.



When Christ took on humanity He took it on for eternity. He took Adam's place at the head of the human race to regain the inheritance that mankind lost through Adam.

I don't think we have any comprehension what it really cost Christ to redeem mankind. It wasn't just a 33 year experiment with being human, He Who was equal with God, Who was God with the Father, gave up a lot to redeem us. Yes, He was highly exalted when He returned to heaven!!! But still He bears limitation now, having taken upon Himself humanity, that He didn't have before.

Jesus did have His divinity while on earth.



To say "clothed His divinity" is not the same as saying "left His divinity" or "gave up His divinity." His divinity, which He ever retained, is what raised Him from the dead.



That underlined part I find rather interesting. We typically think of His death as being the key to our eternal life. But that sentence tells us that it is Christ's divinity that is responsible for our resurrection and life.

And here is another one.



But it can hardly be more clear than in what Mrs. White sent to the Youth's Instructor.



That makes it clear that Christ's divinity never died. This being the case, Jesus was well positioned to make the promise that "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." Jesus does not say that His Father would raise Him. This is significant. And Jesus keeps His promises.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Such a statement seems a bit presumptuous unless you have scripture for it.

I am not God to know whether or not you are right. The Bible does not give us this detail. Neither does Mrs. White. (Unless you know of a passage that supports your claim, in which case please share it with us.)

The fact is, dedication, we are speaking about our omniscient, omnipotent, eternal Creator God here, who says our wisdom is foolishness with Him. I dare not be so arrogant as to presume to know whether or not His divinity could lose consciousness for 36 hours or more.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

There are LOTS of scripture that say Christ died.
And LOTS lots of texts that say God raised Jesus.
I quoted a whole bunch of them just today.
"Christ died for the ungodly."—Romans 5:6.

If we don't believe that Christ REALLY DIED and rose again where does that leave the whole atoning sacrifice?

Yet to imply He was conscious is saying He didn't really die.
I believe, when scripture says that He died, that HE LITERALLY DIED.

You seem to think I denied Christ's divinty -- not sure how you came to that conclusion as I wrote:
"Christ was FULLY human and FULLY Divine."

I don't believe "divinity" is another person, but an attribute, it was part of Who Christ is. I don't pretend to understand everything, as to how the spark of divinity remained alive, but I don't believe divinity has a consciousness of it's own outside of the personhood of Christ.

If I'm chastized for saying Christ in death was unconsious as "being a bit presumptious" then a lot of things in this whole thread should be challenged as presumptious as they deal with things far less clear than the fact that CHRIST DIED for the ungodly.

That's what makes the resurrection so important! He REALLY did die.

Dedication,

I certainly agree with you that much of this thread has been focused on things which are beyond our ken. I think Mrs. White tells us that on subjects like these, silence is golden. It seems, nonetheless, a topic that is causing increased division in our church, and therefore merits some attention. Sticking by the Bible is important, and the Bible does say Christ died. His humanity died.

But, is humanity omniscient? omnipotent? When Christ knew the Pharisees' thoughts, Ellen White credits His divinity for it. It seems obvious that divinity does indeed include thoughts, and thoughts require consciousness. If divinity did not die, I can make a case for saying that Christ's thoughts did not die. I'm not going to do that. I think it's presumptuous, as I said. It is not important. What is important, is that the Bible says Jesus claimed He would raise Himself from the dead, and I believe He did just that. If He did so without thinking, that's pretty amazing, wouldn't you say?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Yes, deity cannot die, being holy: did you realise that it is by nature not subject to death.

God's Son, becoming a man, became subject to death having taken mortal, sinful flesh as his own: it was the Author of life, God's Son, who died. His body consisted mysteriously of two natures, but living as a man, he physically died and he was unconscious in death, asleep - given he was resurrected; he "tasted death for every man", tasting the anguish of the second death of the judgement on sin.

God died for our sins: God in the person of his Son died in human flesh. Clear? Okay, God in the person of his Son (that's how Ellen White worded it) was able both to become a man and to die as a man.

When Christ became human He renounced to the use of His omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence. I agree that He wasn't two persons, although He was both human and divine at the same time. Therefore, when He was sleeping, for instance, I believe He was really unconscious. The same would apply to His death.

Arnold: I'm not sure what you mean..

Gordon: Hi Arnold - Yes Jesus was brought forth in the days of eternity and from that point was in close fellowship with His Father. He has everlasting life (as we all hope to) and has always been one with the Father (in mind, character and purpose), just as with the disciples in John 17. ("That they may be one, even as we are one" - v.22)

The Father's name is in Him (in Christ, 'the Angel [messenger] of the Lord', the Son of God who led the Hebrews through the wilderness). (Exodus 23:21)

The Son of God was always subject to the Father (the Ancient of Days) and will be at the last day:

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Christ), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (The Father) that put all things under him (Christ), that God may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:28).

The Father is "The God of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:17)

The Son is "the Lord's Christ" (Luke 2:26) [the Lord's Anointed One]

Who anointed Jesus? The Father:"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power." (Acts 10:38)

"God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him." (John 3:34)

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Some will reject the Saviour because He is the Son of God, and not God the Father. "He can't be Divine, can't do the job". But this is rejecting God's Plan. God says He gave His Only Begotten Son to save a lost race. God knows the cost of redemption - who are we to argue with Heaven?

Shall we re-order the Universe to suit our fallen human ideas?
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Here's Dedication's quotation from E.J. Waggoner:

Quote:
...the matchless charms of Christ....When Brother Waggoner brought out these ideas in Minneapolis, it was the first clear teaching on this subject from any human lips I had heard, excepting the conversations between myself and my husband. I have said to myself, It is because God has presented it to me in vision that I see it so clearly, and they cannot see it because they have never had it presented to them as I have. And when another presented it, every fiber of my heart said, Amen.--Ms 5, p. 10. (Sermon, Rome, New York, June 19, 1889.) {5MR 219.1}

But here's further elucidation from his own work:

"[Micah 5:2 quoted]..'whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity' (margin). We know that Christ 'proceeded forth and came from God' (John 8:42), but it was so far back in the ages of eternity as to be far beyond the grasp of the mind of man." page 9.

"[Micah 5:2 quoted] There was a time when Christ proceeded forth and came from God, from the bosom of the Father (John 8:42; 1:18), but that time was so far back in the days of eternity that to finite comprehension it is practically without beginning." pp. 21, 22. Christ and His Righteousness, E. J Waggoner. (1890)

"But I would have you know,
that the head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God."

1 Corinthians 11:3
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