Read the parable AGAIN?
What did the servants WANT to do?
How does one uproot the tare OUT OF THE WORLD?
The reapers (angels) will uproot the tares -- how do they do it?

By casting them into the fire. Said fire comes after the judgment. Not even Achan or the Sabbath Breaker experienced such punishment. They have it still coming.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

When is the harvest?

Before or after the millennium?

When do the angels go to four corners of the earth to gather the wheat?




Seems to me the harvest is the second coming.

The second coming marks the end of wheat and tares growing together.

True, the final judgement is after the 1000 years, but the harvest has been gathered "IN" for a 1000 years by then.


But the point is --

WE are not to uproot the tares out of the world.
Isn't that the point under discussion?

I agree with kland that it is a big stretch to apply Jesus' words the way you appear to. If that were Jesus' point, why did He change? What about Malachi 3:6? What about Matthew 5:17-19?

It is true that we are not to stone Sabbath breakers today. But the reasoning behind it does not seem to me to be what you would suggest. The Sabbath law has not changed. God's law does not change. Sinners are all under the death penalty according to the law.

"Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft." There are many "witches" in the world today, according to that philosophy.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you saying.

You admit that Sabbath Keepers aren't to be stoned in our day, yet you question that that law could not have been changed?

So on one hand you admit the civil law of stoning (or people carrying out the penalty of death on Sabbath breakers) has been changed, but then say it couldn't of been changed?????

Why would "my understanding be a stretch" -- I'm wondering if you even understand "my understanding" when you agree to it while telling me it's a stretch?

NEVER HAVE I SAID THE SABBATH HAS BEEN CHANGED! Not one hint of that was every mentioned.

Are you suggesting that's what I've said-- ?????

I've written a whole post saying the penalty of sin remains death for sins unconfessed and unforsaken -- but its taken OUT OF OUR HANDS.


The separation (or pulling out) of tares from the wheat takes place at the second coming. At which time all tares then living die. Though they have already been binding themselves up in bundles before that and the angels finish the job.
That and the gathering of the wheat is the harvest.

It's not our job to kill off the tares.

Of course the judgement of all tares comes after the 1000 years, which results in eternal death, for those in rebellion to God's ways of righteousness.


Sorry but I don't understand your comments or why you think mine are "a stretch".

Dedication,

I did not say the law of stoning has been changed. Not at all. It may not be the law which has changed in this case so much as that it has been trumped by another.

For example, going back to what I brought out in another thread, if a woman made a vow to God, SHE could not change her vow, but if her husband or her father (whomever she belonged to) heard her make the vow and said "No! I forbid you to do that!" God's law specifically said that she would then be cleared of her oath. Why? Because it had been trumped by another.

Through this, God taught respect for authority. There are times when we are brought into subjection of another authority, and it may be that God has allowed this for our good. In any case, once we are under an authority such as our modern government, which does not allow us to stone Sabbath breakers (or anyone for that matter), the law of stoning has been trumped. We must first obey the authority of our government.

Even the Pharisees tried to pull one over on Jesus by bringing him the question of paying taxes. He asked to see a coin, and asked whose picture and inscription were on it. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's" was His response, "and unto God the things that are God's." Ellen White herself said in a quote I remember posting earlier that God had allowed the Jews to come under the Roman authority to prevent them from exercising such viciousness as they may have done, going beyond the law, and being exercised by pride, jealousy, and a host of rules of their own making. (I'm majorly paraphrasing, but the point is that God allowed them to lose control on matters such as capital punishment.)

The law, however, is not changed. Capital punishments are still exercised today by most governments of the world. Such punishments have, nonetheless, passed from the realm of church members' hands and out of the hands of an individual or group of individuals. God has allowed governments to exercise their authority over matters of capital offense and punishment.

In the hypothetical situation (and non-existent case in today's world) where God's people were not under the rule of a civil government and they were returned to a theocracy, I believe the law of stoning may still be in force.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

". . . seek Jesus' counsel before enforcing certain laws". Seems so simple.

I can NOT agree --
Yes, the law concerning stoning Sabbath breakers, blasphemers etc. has been trumped, BUT NOT BY EARTHLY GOVERNMENTS!


God's laws which outline righteousness, do not change.
These are the moral laws that are part of God's very nature and foundation of His throne. They are condensed into the ten commandments and magnified by Christ Himself.

In contrast to God's righteousness is sin.
The rebellion against those grand principles of righteousness in God's law.

Rebellion against God's law is sin.
It is an eternal fact that the wages of sin is death.

When people transgressed God's law in the OT they had the opportunity to repent and bring a lamb to the temple to typify Christ, the substitute that would die for their sin.
The law, written and engraved in stone, was a ministration of death to every human being for all have sinned!

If they didn't come in repentance and place their sin upon the head of the lamb whose life blood was shed in their stead, the sin remained on their own head and they were subjected to die for their own sin.

Without Christ, the transgressor was left under the curse of the law, with no hope of pardon.

It was lesson in types.
Those types met their fulfilment in Jesus.

Christ bore the curse of the law, suffering its penalty, carrying to completion the plan whereby man was to be placed where he could keep God's law, and be accepted through the merits of the Redeemer.

The system of types was done away with.

Now the person who refuses to accept Christ's justification and righteousness still carries his own sins on his own head.
But now the account is registered and judged in heaven, not in any earthly court system. Those who have accepted Christ's merits and justification, having confessed and repented of their sins and are living by faith in Christ, have PARDONED written in their records. Those who reject Christ still have their sins standing against them. They will die with the tares in the harvest.



No -- government has NOT trumped and taken over the punishment for sins concerning our worship of God! NEVER!
Yes, they have the job of keeping people from abusing each other and keeping a relatively safe society, but the authority to legislate how people are to serve God WAS NOT GIVEN THEM.

(Though they have claimed that authority and will claim it again, it was NOT given to them, and when they claim it, it ALWAYS brings persecution and a terrible time of trouble.)

That's what the heavenly judgment is all about, Jesus who paid the death penalty for us, has the right to judge who will live -- it's not in the hands of any civil legislative court.


Yes, God's people will live under a theocracy again -- for eternity -- but it won't be maintained with death sentences forcing obedience. NO! Only those who love God's ways and love to be with Jesus will be there.

Dedication,

Are you saying that the law of stoning was changed? If so, when and with what scripture?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

That law was fulfilled in Jesus and in the sanctuary doctrine.

In the old testament the types show that death results from sin.

The repentant sinner transferred his sin upon the head of the lamb which was killed; the lamb representing Jesus Christ Who would bear the sins and die.

The rebellious sinner had his sins on his own head, and was subjected to death. Stoning being a graphic example of a sinner dying for his own sins.

But now the old types are gone. The reality is Jesus death and sanctuary ministry.

The repentant sinner today, comes to Jesus for forgiveness, accepting Christ's death in his stead.
The rebellious sinner has his sins still on his own head and will die with the tares at the second coming and bear his own sins in the last judgement into everlasting death.

But the laws to slay lambs, and to stone people on issues relating to religion, are no longer in force.

The wheat and the tares are to grow together till the harvest, when the rebellious die, and the saved are gathered into the sky to go home with Jesus.