Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." So, let Him do it.

(Disclaimer: Slippery Slope Fallacy here...)

Yeah, and let's never punish our children, nor disfellowship church members, nor support school discipline for the class bully, nor support the death penalty, etc. God will do it all!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It appears this whole discussion has morphed into a conclusion that goes something like this:

First, God did not really mean for people to follow His law without asking Him if it were His will, especially for cases of capital punishment. Secondly, we don't have the Urim and Thummim with which to ask God today. Third, people will abuse and misuse the Bible commands to support an unholy agenda. Fourth, vengeance is supposed to be God's domain anyway, so.... Conclusion: We should do nothing and let God do it all.



(Note: I'm using a few fallacies of logic in the above to spark some thought and discussion here on a few emphasized points.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Yes, a "few" fallacies and obviously not understanding the arguments that were presented.

1. You've gone back to lumping the civil laws with God's moral law.

2. Secondly you seem to think that just because people believe God was to be consulted in issues of a person's spiritual condition before deadly judicial sentences were carried out, that these people deny the commands in the ancient system.

3. I don't quite get your reasoning with the Urim and Thummim.
I hope you are not meaning that the stoning commands are in force today, for no, the ancient civil laws are NOT in operation today. And no, we don't have a Urim and Thummim today.

4. And yes, people WILL resurrect and misuse the Bible commands to "stone Sabbath breakers" etc. to support an unholy agenda.

5. Your conclusion???
How did you jump from the subject of "stoning" Sabbath breakers and blasphemers etc, to don't discipline your children or support school discipline, or disfellowshipping church members who are hostile to church standards?

They aren't in the same category.

God will take care of the "death penalty" on unrepentant and rebellious sinners.

But Discipline is necessary and should be done in love with the purpose of helping a person become a better person, not in a spirit of vengence.

And I think that is the main question to this topic, Why not?

Well, for starters, -- as I wrote earlier:


(read the parable of the wheat and tares in Matt. 13) Now let's look at how Jesus Himself explains it in verses 36 to 42.


He that sows the good seed is the Son of man --Jesus Himself.

What is the field?

The field is the world

What is the good seed?

the good seed are the children of the kingdom

What are the tares?

tares are the children of the wicked one
The enemy that sowed them is the devil;


Jesus' servants ask -- should we pull out and get rid of the tares?

Translate -- should we stone the evil doers or "take them out" of the world some other way?

Jesus says NO, leave them till the harvest when the reapers will do the job.

When is the harvest?

the harvest is the end of the world

Who are the reapers?

the reapers are the angels

What happens to the tares at the end of the world?

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. The destruction of the lawless ones is not to be carried out now, the angels will take care of that at the end of the world.

It seems so simple - seek Jesus' counsel before enforcing certain laws, in particular laws regulating the death penalty and matters which require knowing motive.

I think Jesus told us that capital punishment for sins pertaining to worship are no longer in human hands.

There will be a movement to enforce a false Sabbath that will claim to have the authorization of Christ Himself to kill those who refuse to forsake the OT Sabbath and embrace the so called "Lord's Day".

What if someone else chose a different law to consult Jesus on? Why did you choose only the death penalty? Do you have scriptural support for that?

Where? The parable isn't talking about the death penalty or stoning, but about wicked people being among the righteous to the end.

And the reason they either see it that way or are willing to accept the laws has to do with their picture of God. If they see God as killing people and seeking their destruction, they will readily accept that certain people need to be killed and will be more than willing to "help God out", just like some have in the inquisition and other past and present history. That's why seeing God as a destroyer is so dangerous. Both for others and for their own salvation.