Okay, whoever believes that after a full study of the Bible is a bit nuts.

This thread has deviated off topic a bit, though, not so.

Very much so. I'm still hoping someone could help me identify the source of the teaching in the subject line.

Certainly she didn't get it from Gulley, Paulien, Goldstein, or any other SDA theologian employed by the denomination. She got it from some antitrinitarian author. But, Arnold, I wonder if such a person is adequate to teach earliteens? If she believes something, she must at least be able to prove it from the Bible, instead of mentioning someone else as the source of her belief.

Well, Ernest L. Martin, once a member of Armstrong's Church of God taught that Christ was first created, then He created everything else.
Here

The JW teach it.

Anti-Adventist websites claim the Adventist Pioneers as well as present day Adventists teach it. They point to quotes by EGW, or present day writers, where it says Michael the Archangel is Christ and they use that as their proof.

Since those who DO teach that Christ was first created as the first angel, also say Michael the Archangel is Christ, so people have put 2 plus 2 together and come up with a faulty five.

We believe Michael being the leader of the angels does not automatically mean He is an angel -- no it means the angels are under the command of Christ Who is above the angels -- He is divine, One with God.

So yes, there are a lot of confusing voices out there, however, I agree that this concept of Christ being first created an angel did NOT come from the sources this earliteen teacher suggested. I don't know of any bonafide Adventist leader teaching anything like that.

I was surprised by the list of names she gave, and told her that I would be shocked if any of them actually taught that. I will see if she can give me more specific info.

I think there can be some wiggle room with the "begotten" camp. But the idea that Jesus was an angel at first, then promoted into being God, which caused Lucifer to be jealous because he wanted to be promoted also, was almost beyond my comprehension.

The Bible says that Christ was brought forth in the days of eternity: Proverbs 8:22-30 and Micah 5:2.

Ellen White quotes the same in the second page of Patriarchs & Prophets - p. 34.
This is the fourth paragraph of her five-volume Conflict series. She is either establishing God's foundation for her series, or she is sowing terrible confusion.

The Adventist pioneers rejected the Trinity doctrine as the wine of Babylon - a warning contained in the 3 Angel's message. The Trinity is the chief doctrine of Rome.

Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God from the days of eternity.
At Bethlehem He became the Son of Man.

How can you claim that Christ doesn't qualify when He is following God's Plan? The Father Himself has testified "I gave them MY SON!" - "My Only Son" - "What more could I do??"

"..yet few would receive Him as the Son of God." PP 64.

"To dispute the supremacy of the Son of God, thus impeaching the wisdom and love of the Creator, had become the purpose of this prince of angels [Lucifer]." PP 36.

"Those who derided his claim to be the Son of God are speechless now." GC643.

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Hi Daryl, Christ was not created, but He was brought forth as the Son of God in the days of eternity. See Proverbs 8:22-30 and Micah 5:2. And Patriarchs & Prophets p. 34. Read this first chapter for more evidence.

Christ is not a created messenger (angel), but as the Son of God He is the Angel of the Lord..."my name is in him" Exodus 23:21.

"Christ was not only the leader of the Hebrews in the wilderness - the Angel in whom was the name of Jehovah, and who , veiled in the cloudy pillar, went before the host - but it was He who gave the law to Israel." PP 366.

Angels are messengers. [Hebrew #4397, Greek #32]

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• Proverbs 8:22-30
• Micah 5:2 & margin
• John 3:16
• Epistles of John
• Patriarchs & Prophets p.34 & 1st chapter
• Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 1 - first chapter - The Fall of Satan
• Spiritual Gifts Vol. 1 - first chapter - The Fall of Satan
• The Story of Redemption - first chapters

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Looking at your table, you provided scriptures bringing these 3 main concepts :

(1)Jesus is the Fountain of Life : (Psalm 36:9, John 14:6) These text does not prove that the life going through Jesus is “original, unborrowed, and underived”, but confirms that he’s “ the mediator between God and man ” (1 Timothy 2:5), “the true vine ” (John 15:1) that will impart life(or nutrients) for the branches to bear fruits, “the anointed one” (Is 61:1; Lk 4:18; Act 10:38; ) who receives the words of life from His father(John 5:19,30; ) and imparts them to us through His Spirit(Jhn 6:63, 68), He is “the bread of Life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. ” (John 6:35) (32)… “Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. (33) For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven; and giveth life unto the world ” (Jn 6:33) – it is in this that makes Him “the Fountain of life” or “the way, the truth, and the life” … – ( John 14:6 continues by confirming what I'm saying above that Jesus is the mediator of life) -- “… no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ” (John 14:6, KJV)

(2)Jesus is the “Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” : (Rev 21:6; 22:13; 1:17-18) Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, meaning he is the beginning and the end. This means many things, to name a few
(i) – in reference to the timeless nature of the spiritual realm. We see and live in a linear time line bound by time and space, whereas Jesus and G-d are not.
(ii) - Jesus knew the beginning from the end because He was with the Father at the beginning and through Jesus all things was created, and through Jesus the works(Plan of salvation) of G-d will be done. Jesus is “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Rev 13:8 denoting that Jesus knew the plan of salvation --the mind and intention of God from the beginning before anything was created. Jesus agreed with His FAther's plan and that's why Jesus is also knows as the "faithful witness" and the Amen of God because he agreed with it and is the second witness to all of His Father's will(plan) that was layed out from the beginning and also given in the Laws to Moses.
(iii) - Jesus is “the beginning” for He created all things and He was the pre-eminence of all things(Col 1:17,18; 1Cor 11:3) The word preeminence is proteuo(4409) which means to be first (in rank or influence). So Jesus is holding the highest rank in the universe under God, which entails all power that influences into motion all things into righteousness with his Words. Jesus is also “the end” of all things for he will bring all things under His feet and He will subject himself to the Father after having subdued all things are under His feet so that the Father can be the "All in All".

“The first and the last” is a literal translation of auth, spelled as Aleph-Vav-Tav, in Hebrew which means “a sign or seal”. Aleph is the first character in the Hebrew alphabet, Tav is the last character, both are joined by Vav which is the middle character of the alphabet that means “a nail or peg” and serve as the conjunction “and” because it “nails” two things together. So by John adding the literal translation of auth in Rev 22:13 serves to link the Hebrew equivalence to the Greek “Alpha and Omega”. There are close to 10,000 occurrences of Aleph & Tav in the Masoretic tex that are not translated in our English translation.

(3)Jesus is the I Am :(Isaiah 43:10-11,13) The “I Am” is a terminology belonging to the spiritual realm where time and space has no boundaries. On earth and in our unglorified(mortal and corruptible) bodies, we are bound by time(“I was” or “I will be”) and space(“I am here” or “I am there”). Jesus is the “I AM” which has no limit of time or space. All time is one. All space is one. In the Spirit, simply all things are. From Jesus spiritual perspective “31 “But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, 32. I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living. ”Mat 21:31-32 Jesus consider Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob living because he can go back or forward in time. That’s why He can say “Before Abraham was, I Am” – Jesus is always the “I Am” for he can travel through time by which this is hard for finite minds to understand.

Summary : I don’t see how your texts you provided proves that Jesus life is “original, unborrowed, or underived”. I’m not saying that it is not true in some other meaning, but according to scripture it does not say explicitly that he does in the way you are meaning it. We have in 1 Tim 6:16 saying “Who[Father] only hath immortality, ” which to me strongly suggest that only the Father has “original, unborrowed, or underived” life. The scriptures seems to be saying that this life is said that it was given to Jesus :
#1) by Anointing Jesus,
#2) by giving Jesus His Word/Will,
#3) by resurrecting Jesus(over 30 texts says that the Father resurrected Jesus),
#4) “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;” (John 5:26)
#5)by making Jesus the mediator, the fountain of life, the bread of life, and etc…

I’m not saying I fully understand all of this yet. As Gordon often brings out the point that the Father is in Christ which is the another meaning or way to understand this by which I fully don’t grasp yet.

What's the evidence showing that 1 Tim 6:16 refers to the Father?