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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity?
[Re: Elle]
#137722
11/29/11 12:46 PM
11/29/11 12:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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my simple point here is that Origen understood 1Ti 6:14-16 as it plainly reads, that the Father only had immortality But it is not clear in the passage if the Person referred to is the Father or Christ. Besides, that Person is compared just with earthly kings and lords, in contrast with whom He "alone has immortality." The passage says, literally: "the King of those who reign as kings and the Lord of those who rule as lords."
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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity?
[Re: Rosangela]
#137728
11/29/11 03:55 PM
11/29/11 03:55 PM
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Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019
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Posts: 2,536
Canada
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Besides, that Person is compared just with earthly kings and lords, in contrast with whom He "alone has immortality." The passage says, literally: "the King of those who reign as kings and the Lord of those who rule as lords." It’s still the same Rosangela --- the King of kings and the Lord of lords. Both the Father and Jesus have that title. The Father is in Jesus, and Jesus is in the Father. So when Jesus is ruling, He doesn’t rule according to his will, His plans, or His laws, but according to the Father’s will, the Father’s plans, and the Father’s laws. Jesus agrees with all of the Father wills, plans, and laws. So Jesus is ruling on the behalf of the Father, not usurping His Father's throne and preserving the Father as the real King who is the only Potentate. Joseph was the Type of this relationship when he saved all of Egypt and the land around it, but Joseph was not above Pharaoh who prefigure the Father. So yes Pharaoh made Joseph rule above all the princes and kings and lords in the Land, but Joseph was ruling Pharaoh's Kingdom not his own. Both the Father and Jesus can be Lord of lords and King of kings, but only the Father can be the Potentate.
Blessings
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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity?
[Re: Elle]
#137750
11/30/11 10:54 AM
11/30/11 10:54 AM
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Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Both the Father and Jesus can be Lord of lords and King of kings, but only the Father can be the Potentate. What is your basis for saying that? As I said, the comparison is between the Person of the Godhead referred to and earthly rulers. He is the only Potentate in the sense of being the King over all the earthly kings and the Lord over all the earthly lords. The word translated here as "potentate" is used in Scripture to refer to earthly rulers (Luke 1:52, Acts 8:27). And again, this applies more naturally to Jesus Christ. We should be careful about this kind of statement. Some take 1 Corinthians 8:6 and say that only the Father is God (at least in what they call "the truest sense"), but they forget that, if the text means that, it also means that only Christ is Lord. Both conclusions, of course, are unwarranted. So, when the Bible says that the Person referred to is the only Potentate, or Sovereign, this doesn't mean at all that the other Persons of the Godhead aren't Sovereigns, but that He is the Sovereign above all earthly sovereigns.
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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity?
[Re: Rosangela]
#137787
12/01/11 10:47 AM
12/01/11 10:47 AM
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Died February 12, 2019
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Both the Father and Jesus can be Lord of lords and King of kings, but only the Father can be the Potentate. What is your basis for saying that? As I said, the comparison is between the Person of the Godhead referred to and earthly rulers. He is the only Potentate in the sense of being the King over all the earthly kings and the Lord over all the earthly lords. The word translated here as "potentate" is used in Scripture to refer to earthly rulers (Luke 1:52, Acts 8:27). And again, this applies more naturally to Jesus Christ. We should be careful about this kind of statement. Some take 1 Corinthians 8:6 and say that only the Father is God (at least in what they call "the truest sense"), but they forget that, if the text means that, it also means that only Christ is Lord. Both conclusions, of course, are unwarranted. So, when the Bible says that the Person referred to is the only Potentate, or Sovereign, this doesn't mean at all that the other Persons of the Godhead aren't Sovereigns, but that He is the Sovereign above all earthly sovereigns. I do see your point Rosangela. I looked at the word Potentate and it's not what I had originally remembered(or assumed) it's meaning. I will agree that this text could be relating to either the Father or Jesus, therefore you need to rely on other texts to determine who it is refering to. I do believe that Jesus is in submission to the Father as much scripture shows that and also a foundational TYPE is given with Joseph. However, like I hinted in the post #137718, that the Godhead or Trinity is something that I do not claim to understand. I thought I understood it in the pass, but I see today that none of us(SDAs) are close to understanding it. So I will continue studying scripture and asking Jesus to teach me(1Jn 2:27).
Blessings
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Re: The Father created Jesus, then later promoted Him to divinity?
[Re: Elle]
#137899
12/05/11 01:28 AM
12/05/11 01:28 AM
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I see the Godhead as being equal to each other, but also being submissive to each other according to their respective roles.
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