Hereditary propensity means the habits of one's ancestors?
And how is one born with that?
Anyway, Ellen White is clear that Jesus was not born with inherent propensities of disobedience, like Adam's posterity:

"Because of sin his [Adam's] posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. ... not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity." {5BC 1128.4}

Thanks for taking the time - it can be a tad time consuming.


Now, let not the words of Scripture or of SOP be defined by a dictionary, but by the Word of God.

Remember this?
Not retain something that's an intrisic part of our sinful flesh? - but, we lose such parts of us only when Jesus returns, i.e. when translated/resurrected to glorified humanity. Therefore, since this statement is about character cleansing (see original!), sinful propensities are things we add to our character - so may choose to let go, not things we find in our sinful flesh.

I feel sorry for anyone thinking according to what you have heard and written about, below!

Assurance in Jesus is indeed about who and what he is for us! That assurance is valuable only as we seek to do God's will: as we give more of our sinful traits to Jesus in exchange for his righteous traits of character, our assurance that he is keeps us cheerful, all the way.

No, no, no: Jesus did not "have" sinful flesh!!! Jesus "took" (Heb 2:14) sinful flesh: the difference is he didn't accept what we are born with when he took it as his own and was born with it. Burdened with selfishness in his adopted humanity, he leaned on his Father to choose God's will. Thus, he was not stained in his character by sin, nor did the corruption of a carnal mind and guilt rest on him for a moment: the mind of Christ is the Holy Spirit ruling the thoughts and motives, etc.

Sorting out the humanity of Christ our Saviour is quite crucial, so we can know just what exactly he saved us from and what it is we can get rid of with him in our lives.

One last thought: Sister White does say that we cannot copy the pattern..., but she wasn't refering to Christ's human character of righteousness. She was refering to his humiliation of giving up his throne of glory in heaven to come down to our level of sinfulness as a creature on this planet. Definitely not that we can't mirror his example, for Jesus by grace and his own deeds has opened the way for us to do just that. Thus A T Jones' commentary on the book of Hebrews is entitled "The Consecrated Way to Christian Perfection".

Only have time for a quickie...


Where in inspiration can we find that we can be born with our ancestors' bad habits as part of our heredity?

It is crucial that a proper understanding of the words be reached before developing one's theology upon them!

pro·pen·si·ty n. pl. pro·pen·si·ties An innate inclination; a tendency. See Synonyms at predilection. [From propense, inclined, from Latin prpnsus, past participle of prpendre, to be inclined; see propend.]

We are often born with the inclinations of our ancestors. For example, alcoholism tends to run in families. No, the baby is not an alcoholic, but he or she is frequently born with the inclination toward alcoholism, and one drink may be all that is necessary to catapult the individual into the habit, from which it is very difficult to escape owing to the hereditary weakness.

That is an example of an "inherited" sort of weakness. But there are also "cultivated" ones which are more ambiguously "inherited." For example, if parents are very prideful, it is common to see the children inherit the same tendency--but this may be on account of its having been modeled for them.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Does it say anywhere that the unholy clamorings of sinful flesh cause corruption? Do we incur guilt and condemnation because the desires of our flesh are unholy?

What do you mean by "keep their bodies from sinning"? Is it possible to indulge the desires of the flesh without the "thoughts and feelings [being sinful and] undeniably selfish"?

What do you mean by "He did not have even the stain of sin in his passions and desires"? Is it possible to be tempted in every way newborn believers are if the flesh is pure and sinless, if its desires are wholly in harmony with the will of God?

What do you mean by "inward selfishness"? Ellen wrote, "The peace which passeth knowledge will cost us battles with the powers of darkness, struggles severe against selfishness and inward sins." {RH, August 2, 1881 par. 8} At what point in the Christian walk does Jesus set believers free from the burden of "selfishness and inward sins"?

This is the logic you are using:
Jesus cannot heal birth defects.
Jesus can heal sinful propensities.
Therefore, sinful propensities are not birth defects.

This is where you fail to see God's power. Is He able to fix something that is broken at birth? Has God shown the ability to heal birth defects? Yes, He has. Just because you are born with a problem does not mean He cannot solve it.

So, if we acknowledge that Jesus can heal all defects, including hereditary ones, then there is no need to violate the English language and stipulate that propensities are habits rather than tendencies.


Here's what I get from that: Jesus took our sinful flesh, but He didn't have it, nor did He accept it, though He was born with it. This is a meaning of "took" with which I am unfamiliar.

Now, if we are talking about Jesus "taking upon Himself" something, then that makes more sense. Something like He took upon Himself our sin, but He didn't have sin.


So, did Jesus have selfishness?


Exactly. If you believe that Jesus had the same sinful propensities that sinners do, then you have no hope of ever eliminating them. But if you believe that Jesus did not have sinful propensities, then there is hope that you can crucify your sinful passions and desires.


Do you believe that sinners can equal Christ's character?

Does it say anywhere that the unholy clamorings of sinful flesh cause corruption? Do we incur guilt and condemnation because the desires of our flesh are unholy?

What do you mean by "keep their bodies from sinning"? Is it possible to indulge the desires of the flesh without the "thoughts and feelings [being sinful and] undeniably selfish"?

What do you mean by "He did not have even the stain of sin in his passions and desires"? Is it possible to be tempted in every way newborn believers are if the flesh is pure and sinless, if its desires are wholly in harmony with the will of God?

What do you mean by "inward selfishness"? Ellen wrote, "The peace which passeth knowledge will cost us battles with the powers of darkness, struggles severe against selfishness and inward sins." {RH, August 2, 1881 par. 8} At what point in the Christian walk does Jesus set believers free from the burden of "selfishness and inward sins"?

I'll have to do this a little at a time.


Not exactly. It would seem obvious that unholy = corrupt.

However, there is a text that says our righteousnesses are filthy. So, if even our righteousnesses are filthy, certainly our unholiness would also be filthy.


The carnal mind is enmity to God. Do guilt and condemnation come with enmity to God? If so, then yes, unholiness brings guilt and condemnation.

I'm finding this part of the discussion counter-intuitive. Are we really discussing whether or not unholiness is a bad thing? I would think that to be obvious. But if we lose sight of how holy God is, then we start to think unholiness isn't so bad after all.

Satan is unholy. He tempts us to sin. Do either cause guilt or condemnation? No, of course not. So, why do you think the fact our sinful flesh nature tempts us to sin causes guilt and condemnation? As you know, sinful flesh nature cannot sin, it can only tempt us to sin. Ellen wrote:


Our sinful flesh tempts us with corrupt thoughts and affections. So long as we put these temptations to death we do not incur guilt or condemnation. All temptations begin as unholy thoughts and feelings. It is not a sin to be tempted. Ellen wrote:

Don't you think that Satan is guilty and condemned for being an unholy tempter, whether or not you fall for his tricks?