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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139070
01/24/12 01:42 AM
01/24/12 01:42 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Yes exactly, our Universal 'bubble' is isolated from the others because of sin.
Before the fall, Adam could enter and exit the Garden of Eden through the Eastern Gate at his desire. The Garden of Eden is where all the un-fallen created sons of God have access to the tree of life and as such will never die. The garden is in the New Jerusalem in heaven but there was access here on earth. The portal of which was visible even to fallen man, up until the day of the flood.
Regarding the value of time in our creation, think about this. The beginning of life is accelerated in almost every instance of birth on our planet. For instance; When a baby is born the eyes are as big as they'll ever get, but how tremendously they have to grow in nine months to get that big. Same with the over all body in general, never again is the body going to grow as fast as it did in the Uterus.
So with that image in mind, think about our universe in an un-fallen condition. No debris in the vastness of space, allowing us to see from one side of our universe to the other in perfect light. Nothing to harm, everything in perfect order.
Even the earth itself covered in a miraculous bubble of water above the earth (the upper firmament) like a giant amniotic sack applying more than double the current atmospheric pressure, like living in a giant hyperbaric chamber.
Then, 6,000 years ago, in this accelerated growth stage of our universe, the tree of knowledge of good and evil was Satans only portal. He couldn't leave until Adam fell and let him and his angels out of their cage of darkness and again he had access to come before God in heaven in the place of Adam, to accuse God before the angels and un-fallen worlds.
So only 6,000 years have passed since he had access to do his dirty on this Universe, the beginning of which was in a highly accelerated mode of growth, so damage done in that state would be exponentially felt in the future.
And here we are on this solitary rock, alone in this violent universe with only the atmosphere and electromagnetic field of the planet to protect us from the harmful things out in the big bad space, and most of us can't see that it is God that sustains and protects us. He alone keeps us safe from the cosmic destruction going on around us.
God holds the four winds, but they are about to blow very soon.
You know what happens when four powerful winds intersect? It's the perfect metaphor for world wide destruction.
Crazy...
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139078
01/24/12 02:07 PM
01/24/12 02:07 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
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Interesting ideas. So before sin, there was one universe, shared by all, but now there are two? One is the copy of the other, but without sin? I might be missing something here. Are the unfallen worlds in their own universe, but they can view this one; that's the idea?
Did you understand the question about the dead stars? Ordinarily it would take an enormous amount of time for a star to go out, and then a much smaller amount of time for the light to get here (although that smaller amount of time could still be millions of years). If we assume that dead stars are the result of sin, and that the universe was created a short amount of time ago, how do we explain this?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139079
01/24/12 02:56 PM
01/24/12 02:56 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
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Posts: 3,613
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There is one "heavenly Universe" but under this are multiple "celestial universes". Each of the un-fallen worlds have their own universe and their own access to the Garden of Eden. We lost access to our gate at the fall when the angel was posted at the gate and Adam was escorted out of Eden. So I believe there are at least 24 universes, one for each of the 24 elders like Adam, before the throne since creation.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139080
01/24/12 03:01 PM
01/24/12 03:01 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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The cool thing also is, I believe we can still enter the gate spiritually in Christ. Enoch and Elijah made it through the gate physically by having the "faith OF Jesus". They were examples to the possibility to enter. If you would read my blog about the Red Heifer, http://redheifersbloodysweat.blogspot.com/2011/12/red-heifer.htmlyou will see that there is still access through the gate because of what Jesus did in Gethsemane. You'll love it I believe.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139088
01/24/12 05:46 PM
01/24/12 05:46 PM
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SDA Active Member 2024
5500+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,512
Midland
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There is one "heavenly Universe" but under this are multiple "celestial universes". Each of the un-fallen worlds have their own universe and their own access to the Garden of Eden. We lost access to our gate at the fall when the angel was posted at the gate and Adam was escorted out of Eden. So I believe there are at least 24 universes, one for each of the 24 elders like Adam, before the throne since creation.
Reminds me of someone else's dual personalities and multiple realities, but it would account for stars dying and other things.
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: kland]
#139095
01/24/12 06:57 PM
01/24/12 06:57 PM
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OP
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Lawrence, Kansas
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I don't think it accounts for stars dying for two reasons. One is that mankind only sinned a few thousand years ago, and the star's death is tied to man's sin (being in this universe). It takes a long, long time for a star to die, and a long time for use to see that it's happened. So how, under this scenario, are we seeing evidence for the death of stars?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Tom]
#139097
01/24/12 07:48 PM
01/24/12 07:48 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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I don't think it accounts for stars dying for two reasons. One is that mankind only sinned a few thousand years ago, and the star's death is tied to man's sin (being in this universe). It takes a long, long time for a star to die, and a long time for use to see that it's happened. So how, under this scenario, are we seeing evidence for the death of stars? The key to the answer of your question is in your question..."the death of stars". Every time astronomers see a white dwarf or remnants of a super nova there is evidence of the death of a star. And since any kind of death is a remnant of sin, it must be the result of sin. "This so-called "planetary nebula" is the aftermath of the death of a star. a faint green bubble in the white box near the bottom center of the image, the burned-out central star can be seen inside the bubble."
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139098
01/24/12 07:50 PM
01/24/12 07:50 PM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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In heaven and in un-fallen worlds, stars never die.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#139101
01/24/12 08:12 PM
01/24/12 08:12 PM
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I was also wondering about this in relation to the time when and billions of years after the New Heaven and the New Earth takes place. I can't imagine our new Sun eventually dying somewhere down the road of eternity. In heaven and in un-fallen worlds, stars never die.
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Re: Astronomy question
[Re: Daryl]
#139110
01/25/12 12:17 PM
01/25/12 12:17 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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James, the point is that it takes many millions of years for a star to die, and millions of years, for some of the stars at least that we see such evidence, for us to see this evidence. If we have our own universe, so to speak, and stars do not die without sin, and sin has only existed for a few thousand years, how do we explain the fact that we see such evidence? Such evidence should only be visible, for us at least, after many millions of years.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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