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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13900
05/21/05 01:29 PM
05/21/05 01:29 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Is that what salvation is about?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13901
05/23/05 03:16 PM
05/23/05 03:16 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Jean de Joinville wrote about the famous incident of the woman who carried in one hand a chafing dish of fire, in the other a phial of water, that she might burn heaven and quench hell, in order that in future man should serve God out of love only. However, this theology is not correct. God in His Word and Christ in His teachings emphasized both the reward of the faithful, in order to encourage us, and the reward of the wicked, in order to warn us. Of course a correct balance is essential in the presentation of both, but both should be clearly presented to sinners.

"The professed heralds of the cross of Christ must present the lessons of Christ. They must learn from the word of God how to present these lessons to the people in the very way in which Christ presented them, bringing to bear upon human hearts eternal realities, and warning them to flee from the wrath to come, and to lay hold of eternal life" {BEcho, May 28, 1894}

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13902
05/23/05 04:46 PM
05/23/05 04:46 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Why do the wicked need salvation? From what?

Why doesn't God just leave them well enough alone?

Is he saving the wicked from his self-imposed destruction?

What is that clear teaching?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13903
05/23/05 06:56 PM
05/23/05 06:56 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Why do the wicked need salvation? From what?

They need salvation from sin, which leads them to view God in a way which He is not, which leads them to suicidal behavior.

Why doesn't God just leave them well enough alone?

I assume this is asking why God bothers to resurrect the wicked. I've posted this as a topic before. It's a very fruitful area of discussion, I believe.

I think God resurrects the wicked to reveal the truth. That is, God reveals the truth about Himself to those who have chosen to reject Him, and the truth about themselves as well.

The sin that is in the mind of the wicked has never been dealt with. Sin resides in the mind, so for it to be dealt with, the minds of those in whom the sin resides must be restored to a functioning state. When the wicked are resurrected, it is possible for God to deal with their sin, which He does in the say way He always does, which is by revealing the truth about Himself to the sinner. Done a little at a time, if the damaged one is willing, this revelation leads to healing. At the end, healing is no longer possible, and the revelation of the truth about God, which is life for the righteous, slays the wicked.

Is he saving the wicked from his self-imposed destruction?

He's saving them from their self-inposted destruction. At least, that's what He's trying to do.

What is that clear teaching?

The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. (DA 764)

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13904
05/23/05 11:33 PM
05/23/05 11:33 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
quote:
God in His Word and Christ in His teachings emphasized both the reward of the faithful, in order to encourage us, and the reward of the wicked, in order to warn us.
What do you mean “faithful”, what defines someone “wicked”. We see many things today which are good being called “bad”; and many things which are bad being called “good”. When we talk about salvation we really aught to know why we need salvation and what we are saved from. What are we being warned of? Suppose we were to take God out of the picture, would we need salvation?

In many of the threads here, there is much contending for what amounts to nothing less than us being saved from God. So, what is that clear teaching?

The clear teaching should reveal the actual problem, and the solution. Yes?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13905
05/23/05 11:46 PM
05/23/05 11:46 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Thanks Tom for your comments.

We need to define more why sin and death are partners. Or is it arbitrary sin, like when Saul prohibited anyone to taste anything; and David ate the honeycomb. What was wrong with eating anyway? It seems that many have such a concept of sin? A sin where there is really nothing the matter, except for the fact that God made some stipulations.

Why doesn't God just leave them well enough alone?
I was thinking more in context of inquisition which I had posted earlier.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13906
05/24/05 01:36 AM
05/24/05 01:36 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Suppose we were to take God out of the picture, would we need salvation?
This is a great question!

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13907
05/24/05 01:42 AM
05/24/05 01:42 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
John B.: We need to define more why sin and death are partners. Or is it arbitrary sin, like when Saul prohibited anyone to taste anything; and David ate the honeycomb. What was wrong with eating anyway? It seems that many have such a concept of sin? A sin where there is really nothing the matter, except for the fact that God made some stipulations.

Tom: Yes, this is a question we need to understand. Is there something wrong with sin, other than God doesn't like it?

John B. Why doesn't God just leave them well enough alone? I was thinking more in context of inquisition which I had posted earlier.

Tom: God doesn't leave sinners alone because sin will kill them. As good human parents would do anything to save their children, so God was willing to do anything to save His, even at the risk of failure and eternal loss of His most precious Love.

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13908
05/25/05 01:40 AM
05/25/05 01:40 AM
John H.  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
"Take God out of the picture"? How does one do that?

Re: Salvation of the wicked !!! #13909
05/25/05 10:35 AM
05/25/05 10:35 AM
J
John Boskovic  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
It should not be too difficult, since most people live "like he doesn't exist" anyway.

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