That would only make sense for stars which are exactly 6,000 light years away. What's your thinking here?

Regarding the death of stars, there is other evidence than photographs.

If I'm understanding you correctly, it is your opinion that stars could not have died, so any evidence that stars have died must be incorrect? Have I understood you correctly? Is so, why do you feel this way?

Luke 8:30 'Jesus then asked him, What is your name? And he answered, Legion; for many demons had entered him. 31And they begged [Jesus] not to command them to depart into the Abyss (bottomless pit). 32Now a great herd of swine was there feeding on the hillside; and [the demons] begged Him to give them leave to enter these. And He allowed them [to do so]'.

If they could have been sent to the bottomless pit without being destroyed first (death of an angel) then the bottomless pit here spoken of could not be on the surface of earth.

When Satan was sent out of heaven, there was no earth. He was sent into complete emptiness and He and his fallen angels are TERRIFIED of that place. His only access to any light was at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil masked as the serpent. God created this universe a short time before Adam sinned, then Satan had free reign over the Universe that Adam was created to govern, not before. That is very important to remember.

Death and our interpretation for what this all means is only 6,000 years old.

This universe was a lot smaller when first created 6000 years ago, so the light would have been a lot closer when the really old events seem to have occurred. The space between us and those fallen, seemingly millions of light years away celestial events has been dramatically altered because of the rift in Universal harmony. The Universe was so young when Adam fell, that the space between need to be expanded quickly or the harmful elements of the decaying Universe would wipe out all life on earth. The Father had a wonderful hand in making us secure till the end but Satan has been counter playing everything God does.

He that used to walk amongst the burning stones (stars) now destroys them.

In my view, that is akin to saying that in heaven and un-fallen worlds, pitchers of water never become empty.

Stars are not alive, so "death" is not quite the same for them as they are for living creatures. When you pour water from a pitcher, it eventually runs out. That's what happens when a star "dies": it runs out of material. Does anyone believe that when un-fallen creatures pour water from a pitcher, the water never runs out?

It is possible, of course. Even on this fallen planet, God has caused pitchers to continue pouring well past what would normally be expected. That could be the norm on an un-fallen world, but that would mean that the fundamental laws of nature are very different between here and there.

Sounds like the pitcher is always full in heaven.

A portion of the heat generated in a mechanical system, and thus lost, is due to friction between moving parts. To reduce that inefficiency, we reduce friction. Therefore, we put oil, grease, and other lubricants to minimize friction.

To completely eliminate that inefficiency, we have to eliminate friction. But if all friction is eliminated, we would be slipping and sliding all day.

Just a couple of things to think about, I'm numbering them to sepperate them, not building any type of order. These are things I heard in different sermons and Bible studies such as at Atlantic Union College, Andrews University, Loma Linda, and different Seventh-day Adventist sermons:

1.While Genesis 1 and 2 are about the creation of the world, for the third day when it talks about when the sun and moon was visible from the earth (note: it does not say they were created that day but only in our sky that day) it says that God made the stars also, not indicating that they were created that day but that God was the creator of them.

2. The Mrs. White quote "And many who profess to believe the Bible record are at a loss to account for wonderful things which are found in the earth, with the view that creation week was only seven literal days, and that the world is now only about six thousand years old. These, to free themselves from difficulties thrown in their way by infidel geologists, adopt the view that the six days of creation were six vast, indefinite periods, and the day of God’s rest was another indefinite period; making senseless the fourth commandment of God’s holy law. Some eagerly receive this position; for it destroys the force of the fourth commandment, and they feel a freedom from its claims upon them. They have limited ideas of the size of men, animals, and trees, before the flood, and of the great changes which then took place in the earth."

a.)Does not have Mrs. White herself saying that the world is 6,000 years old, but just that people who want to believe the Bible are saying that 6,000 is too short so they turn to making the litteral days to be longer periods of time instead of holding to the literal week. And she basically says that we don't know enough about the Bible or enough understanding of these changes, that the changes took place a lot faster than the evolutionists theorize. (i.e. Mrs. White has a fast evoluction dealing with the 2 events, the enterance of sin and the changes after the flood, rather than the gradual evolution that the evolutionists teach)

b. When Mrs. White was expanding her earlier writings into Patararchs and Prophets, she came across a passage where she said that the earth was 6,000 years old, she crossed it out and put her initials by the cross out and [and please forgive me that I have forgotten the reference, I had it memorized for a few years, I actually read this; in the summer of 1984 taking a class on Biblical Archaeology, we were required to walk over to the White Estate vault with the reference and see this evidence in person because the professor knew that we would not believe him if he told us... sadly I have to tell you, but this is not reating what a professor or pastor said, but we were actually sent to hold the first hand evidence in our hands and read it] Mrs. White wrote an article where she down plays the 6,000 years. She does argue strongly that Creation week was indeed a literal week, and she argues strongly that the earth is fairly young, however she said that we don't need to hold tightly to the strict 6,000 years, that what ever age we hold for the world just needs to be fair to the Bible.

c. There are many passages where she says things like "for about 6,000 years" "for amost 6,000 years" "for over 6,0000 years" Now while they all keep refering to 6,000 years, she is not discussing the age of the earth in these passages but uses it for a term meaning the sweep of the great cotroversy. Second, it was her editors who made them all read 6,000 years, the passages in her own handwriting uses different numbers with in a couple thousand years.

d. The text from which we add up the ages to get 6,000 years are very ancient texts and had been updated in language much over the centuries (thus giving evidence of the authentisity of those parts of scripture) but with all the translating the numbers have become very hard to read, the ages we have are basically estamates, which gets to about 6,000 to 10,000 years. When looked at the 3 ancient families, the Palistain text (the Bible Jesus used) the best know and best complete is the Dead Sea Scrolls, had the earth become 7,000 years old when Jesus came the first time. The Egyptain family (the Bible Paul used) the best known is the Septuant, different manuscripts has the earth now 7,000 to 10,000 years old. It was the Babylonian family (the Bible of those who stayed in Babylon after the exile) of texts from which we got the masseritic text and the 6,000 years (and there were 2 reasons why we got this to be our Bible. First there was a Rabbi who was originally from Babylon and came to Jerusalem and became a famous Rabbi and he liked the Bible he grew up with. Second, shortly before Jesus, a Rabbi, using the Palistainian Text counting up the ages figured that the word would soon reach the 7,000 year mark and equated the days of creation to the 7,000 years that he believed the world was about to turn so he said that the 7,000 year would be the age of the messiah. When Jesus claimed to be the messiah and Jews rejected him they wanted to push the 7,000th year farther into the future and so they took the Babylonian text so that they could say that the world was only 4,000 years old and thus Jesus could not fulfill what the Rabbi taught about the messiah coming when the world was 7,000 years)

d. You can look up this reference in the March 1984 issue of Ministry mag. In ancient manuscrips they are unfortunetely not consecutive generations. The cuture was to list the important people in the line. When Genesis 5:12-14 talks about Cainan and Mahalaleel, for the ancient manuscrips it would mean that when Cainan was 75 years old he had a child. That child was either Mahalaleel, or else a child who was the direct ancester to Mahalaleel.

In conclusion to this session: We can be very strict that creation was 7 litteral days and that the earth is certanly not the millions or billions of years old, but a fairly young earth. However the Bible gives us permission to be flexable with the 6,000 number. And we have the age of the universe as older than this.

3. That Satan was cast to this earth before the creation comes from John Milton. Mrs. White really does not say either way, but some of my professors have read passages where she says some things that might have the final fall to the earth be when Revelation places it: Revelation 12 had Jesus born, crucified, raised and assesded to heaven where there was war in heaven and the dragon no longer had a place in heaven.

I am again sorry that I do not have the reference for the article that Mrs. White wrote that down plays the 6,000 years. But these are things that have been pointed out to me from the teaching arm of the Seventh-day Adventist church, much of it being what we had to go to the libarary to get the first hand reference. These are just pieces of evidence that we should keep in a corner of our mind as we study this topic.

Not really. Those quotes refer to the experience of living organisms. Extrapolating that to pitchers of water is unwarranted.

If what you say is true in heaven, then you could put a spoonful of soup in your mouth, pull out the spoon, and still have a spoonful of soup in the spoon. Do you believe the laws of nature will change that dramatically?

Let's apply that concept to people. If pitchers are always full, would people also always be full, never needing a refill? If so, we would not need to eat or drink. Is that how you see it?

I have a video where a scientist (forgot if it was astronomer or astrophysicist) reveals that there is evidence that some celestial objects (globular clusters, I think) are not as far away as generally believed by the scientific community. I'll try to find and upload it.

I know what your saying is true on the pitcher being magically filled, It was a metaphor. The source of the object in the pitcher would never run out though, don't you agree?

The oil would flow from a pitcher forever in the hands of Jesus and His true followers. Perfect precedence in scripture.

2 Kings 4:6 'And it came to pass, when the vessels were full, that she said unto her son, Bring me yet another vessel. And he said unto her, There is not a vessel more. And the oil stayed.

The bread could be broke into an infinite amount of pieces by the disciples, with Jesus by their side.

Now take into consideration nothing dies, nothing corrodes, nothing fades. Perfectly connected to the source of life.

Heavenly Knowledge Will Be Progressive—All the treasures of the universe will be open to the study of God’s redeemed. Unfettered by mortality, they wing their tireless flight to worlds afar—worlds that thrilled with sorrow at the spectacle of human woe and rang with songs of gladness at the tidings of a ransomed soul. With unutterable delight the children of earth enter into the joy and the wisdom of unfallen beings. They share the treasures of knowledge and understanding gained through the ages upon ages in contemplation of God’s handiwork. With undimmed vision they gaze upon the glory of creation—suns and stars and systems, all in their appointed order circling the throne of Deity. Upon all things, from the least to the greatest, the Creator’s name is written, and in all are the riches of His power displayed. {AH 548.1}

And the years of eternity, as they roll, will bring richer and still more glorious revelations of God and of Christ. As knowledge is progressive, so will love, reverence, and happiness increase. The more men learn of God, the greater will be their admiration of His character.5 {AH 548.2}