This would relate to the age being misinterpreted. If you have parallel universes, and one sinned, then disaster happened throughout its whole universe, one could imagine an explosion causing the expansion of the universe (faster than light), therefore the light which looks really old, has also been moving away from us faster than it can get here. And stars dying only started when the universe system sinned.

Not saying I believe any of this any more than the aforementioned multiple realities....

I don't see any reason for the Sun and earth's age to vary relative to the issue.

Regarding some evidence of the raw materials being younger than so thought is another which relates to age being misinterpreted. One of the things I had in mind relates to Radioisotope dating. Here's a link about some of it:
http://grisda.net/subGi/age-of-the-earth/

Isotopes just give counts but there's too many assumptions as to what to make of those counts. Long agers consider the conclusion based upon the assumptions to be facts. However, the only facts are the current decay rates and the current quantities. I don't know if the link goes into it, but I've seem to recall reading that some of the current rates even vary from sample to sample and they just pick an average and discard the "anomalies".

Of course this may not support my idea that the earth and universe is very old...
However, according to the Bible, I believe the earth was here before creation week. How long before is open to speculation as much as everyone else.

Questions: Is entropy sin? How about conservation of energy? What happens when stars give off light?

Could there have been a ceasing of inputs?

What about the rest of the worlds? Are they also seeing stars dying? Or are they seeing the beauty of stars regenerating in an endless cycle of give and take? But then, what prevents a world they are near from "dying"? Or is it time for them to continue filling the universe?

Dear Brother Tom,

What we perceive, and what is truth can only harmonize if seen through the eternal word of God. If God says sin is only 6,000 years old, then there must be an explanation that has not been fully revealed to our understanding. For as the Lord Himself said;

Job 38

1 Then Jehovah answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel By words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; For I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.

No one knows what happened exactly because we were not around to witness the event, so for the safety of our souls we need to consider God the authority. Pray for understanding, for we will only lead ourselves astray if left to our imaginations.

The evidence is obviously swayed to represent this Universe as Billions of years old, but the biblical evidence says 6,000.

In faith we are tested to believe God at His word. Amen.

Where does it say the universe is 6,000 years old?

These are good questions, the kinds I've been pondering.

Regarding entropy, I see two things happening, one being change. For example, if you put a small amount of perfume in a room, eventually the molecules will spread out, and you can smell the perfume through the room. There is a movement of molecule from a more ordered state to a less ordered one. That's one thing. I think we can agree this has nothing to do with sin.

The other part is more interesting. In any system there are inefficiencies where energy gets "lost," mostly in the form of heat. So in the burning of gasoline, for example, only something like 25% gets propelled into energy that moves the car, the other 75% being "lost," mostly as heat. It seems to me without sin these inefficiencies might not exist, and that could have an impact on how things work.

Regarding what other beings viewed, my assumption has been there is one universe, and they see what's going on, and sin does impact what they see, although at a very large distance, I would imagine. After the judgment, the entire universe would be "cleansed" from sin, if that's the appropriate term. This is how I've thought of this.

From Wikipedia;

Young Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief that Heavens, Earth, and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago. Its primary adherents are Christians and Jews who believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, taking what they regard to be a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis for their beliefs.

Now read this from 'Spirit of Prophecy Vol. 1, pg. 87.'

Chapter 8—Disguised Infidelity

I was then carried back to the creation, and was shown that the first week, in which God performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day, was just like every other week. The great God, in his days of creation and day of rest, measured off the first cycle as a sample for successive weeks till the close of time. “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created.” God gives us the productions of his work at the close of each literal day. Each day was accounted of him a generation, because every day he generated or produced some new portion of his work. On the seventh
day of the first week God rested from his work, and then blessed the day of his rest, and set it apart for the use of man. The weekly cycle of seven literal days, six for labor and the seventh for rest, which has been preserved and brought down through Bible history, originated in the great facts of the first seven days.

When God spake his law with an audible voice from Sinai, he introduced the Sabbath by saying, “Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy.” He then declares definitely what shall be done on the six days, and what shall not be done on the seventh. He then, in giving the reason for thus observing the week, points them back to his example on the first seven days of time. “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day, wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath-day and hallowed it.” This reason appears beautiful and forcible when we understand the record of creation to mean literal days. The first six days of each week are given to man in which to labor, because God employed the same period of the first week in the work of creation. The seventh day God has reserved as a day of rest, in commemoration of his rest during the same period of time after he had performed the work of creation in six days.

But the infidel supposition that the events of the first week required seven vast, indefinite periods for their accomplishment, strikes directly at the foundation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. It makes indefinite and obscure that which God has made very plain. It is the worst kind of infidelity; for with many who profess to believe the record of creation, it is infidelity in
disguise. It charges God with commanding men to observe the week of seven literal days in commemoration of seven indefinite periods, which is unlike his dealings with mortals, and is an impeachment of his wisdom.

Infidel geologists claim that the world is very much older than the Bible record makes it. They reject the Bible record because of those things which are to them evidences from the earth itself that the world has existed tens of thousands of years. And many who profess to believe the Bible record are at a loss to account for wonderful things which are found in the earth, with the view that creation week was only seven literal days, and that the world is now only about six thousand years old. These, to free themselves from difficulties thrown in their way by infidel geologists, adopt the view that the six days of creation were six vast, indefinite periods, and the day of God’s rest was another indefinite period; making senseless the fourth commandment of God’s holy law. Some eagerly receive this position; for it destroys the force of the fourth commandment, and they feel a freedom from its claims upon them. They have limited ideas of the size of men, animals, and trees, before the flood, and of the great changes which then took place in the earth.

Bones of men and animals are found in the earth, in mountains and in valleys, showing that much larger men and beasts once lived upon the earth. I was shown that very large, powerful animals existed before the flood, which do not now exist. Instruments of warfare are sometimes found; also petrified wood. Because the bones of human beings and of animals found in the earth are much larger than those of men and animals
now living, or that have existed for many generations past, some conclude that the world is older than we have any scriptural record of, and was populated long before the record of creation, by a race of beings vastly superior in size to men now upon the earth.

I have been shown that, without Bible history, geology can prove nothing. Relics found in the earth do give evidence of a state of things differing in many respects from the present. But the time of their existence, and how long a period these things have been in the earth, are only to be understood by Bible history. It may be innocent to conjecture beyond Bible history, if our suppositions do not contradict the facts found in the sacred Scriptures. But when men leave the word of God in regard to the history of creation, and seek to account for God’s creative works upon natural principles, they are upon a boundless ocean of uncertainty. Just how God accomplished the work of creation in six literal days, he has never revealed to mortals. His creative works are just as incomprehensible as his existence.

“Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.”

“Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.”

“Which doeth great things, and unsearchable; marvelous things without number.”

“God thundereth marvelously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.”

“Oh! the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?”

The word of God is given as a lamp unto our feet, and a light unto our path. Those who cast his word behind them, and seek by their own blind philosophy to trace out the wonderful mysteries of Jehovah, will stumble in darkness. A guide has been given to mortals whereby they may trace Jehovah and his works as far as will be for their good. Inspiration, in giving us the history of the flood, has explained wonderful mysteries that geology, independent of inspiration, never could.

It has been the special work of Satan to lead fallen man to rebel against God’s government, and he has succeeded too well in his efforts. He has tried to obscure the law of God, which in itself is very plain. He has manifested a special hate against the fourth precept of the decalogue, because it defines the living God, the maker of the heavens and the earth. The plainest precepts of Jehovah are turned from, to receive infidel fables.

Man will be left without excuse. God has given sufficient evidence upon which to base faith, if he wishes to believe. In the last days, the earth will be almost destitute of true faith. Upon the merest pretense, the word of God will be considered unreliable, while human reasoning will be received, though it be in opposition to plain Scripture facts. Men will endeavor to explain from natural causes the work of creation, which God has never revealed. But human science cannot search out the secrets of the God of Heaven, and explain the stupendous works of creation, which were a miracle of almighty power, any sooner than it can show how God came into existence.
“The secret things belong unto the Lord our God; but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever.” Men, professing to be ministers of God, raise their voices against the investigation of prophecy, and tell the people that the prophecies, especially of Daniel and John, are obscure, and that we cannot understand them. But some of the very men who oppose the investigation of prophecy because it is obscure, eagerly receive the suppositions of geologists, which dispute the Mosaic record. But if God’s revealed will is so difficult to be understood, certainly men should not rest their faith upon mere suppositions in regard to that which he has not revealed. God’s ways are not as our ways, neither are his thoughts as our thoughts. Human science can never account for his wondrous works. God so ordered that men, beasts, and trees, many times larger than those now upon the earth, and other things, should be buried in the earth at the time of the flood, and there be preserved to evidence to man that the inhabitants of the old world perished by a flood. God designed that the discovery of these things in the earth should establish the faith of men in inspired history. But men, with their vain reasoning, make a wrong use of these things which God designed should lead them to exalt him. They fall into the same error as did the people before the flood—those things which God gave them as a benefit, they turned into a curse, by making a wrong use of them.

These are good quotes, James. I'm pretty sure kland, however, does not believe in 6 indefinite periods of time, but in 6 24 hour days, as far as the creation week is concern. Indeed, I think everyone posting here believes the first week consisted of 7 literal 24 hour days. The question is whether the earth already existed, as "tohu wabohu" (if I remember my Hebrew correctly), a chaotic state, from which God caused the dry land to emerge.

My question to you still stands, by the way, in regards to how we would see evidence of the death of stars, given it would take millions of years for the light to get here, and many more millions of years for them to die in the first place. Personally I'm inclined towards a young earth/universe perspective, but this is a question which has puzzled me.

Jesus cast the evil angels to earth before creation week began. "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev 12:9). Obviously, therefore, the earth existed in some form before creation week began. Ellen wrote:


Apparently our planet was created a long time ago, and then 6,000 years ago Jesus recreated it, surrounded it with our galaxy, and populated it with plants, animals, and people.

Scientific interpretation of deep space photos may be incorrect. What they think pictures death of stars may be something else altogether. I suspect the photos compiled thus far reach no farther than what was created on the fourth day of creation week. If so, then what we're seeing dates back only 6,000 years.

Regarding the Revelation 12 passage:



I don't how you could argue from this that the earth existed before creation week.

Your first quote says:



This implies the earth did not exist ("anticipated creation of the earth ...").

So I'm not following your train of thought.

Also, if you think the earth was "recreated," why would you think it was surrounded by our galaxy? Wouldn't it make sense that the earth was created at the same time the galaxy was?

Also there are other worlds besides our own, with beings on them that already existed. These worlds must have already existed.