"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev 12:7-9). In what sense were evils angels "cast into the earth"?

"Then there was war in heaven. . . and Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from heaven". {SR 19.1} Where did they go?

"Cast out of heaven, Satan set up his kingdom in this world, and ever since, he has been untiringly striving to seduce human beings from their allegiance to God." {7BC 973.5} When did he set up his kingdom here?

Also, you wrote - "You are witnessing the Holy Spirit move through me right now." What do you mean? Are you saying your words here reflects the mind of God?

Before I answer any of your questions, you answer mine first please.

Did God create the earth to cast the devil on it, or for Adam?

Was the devil here before God created a perfect planet? Doesn't sound very perfect to me with him here.

Is the bible in error when it says Satan appeared at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, no where else after his fall until Adam sinned?

You pray about it and see if God answers you. If He doesn't, that usually means there is nothing He can do to force your opinion. If He does then you will see the truth.

Yes my God does answer my prayers powerfully. And yes I do hear His voice in and through the Holy Spirit, If that answers the question that I had already answered several times throughout everything I have written here. Lets see what you do with the information that you so challengingly asked.

"With the earliest history of man, Satan began his efforts to deceive our race. He who had incited rebellion in heaven desired to bring the inhabitants of the earth to unite with him in his warfare against the government of God. Adam and Eve had been perfectly happy in obedience to the law of God, and this fact was a constant testimony against the claim which Satan had urged in heaven, that God’s law was oppressive and opposed to the good of His creatures. And furthermore, Satan’s envy was excited as he looked upon the beautiful home prepared for the sinless pair. He determined to cause their fall, that, having separated them from God and brought them under his own power, he might gain possession of the earth and here establish his kingdom in opposition to the Most High. {DD 13.1}
Had Satan revealed himself in his real character, he would have been repulsed at once, for Adam and Eve had been warned against this dangerous foe; but he worked in the dark, concealing his purpose, that he might more effectually accomplish his object. Employing as his medium the serpent, then a creature of fascinating appearance, he addressed himself to Eve: “Hath God said, ‘Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” Genesis 3:1. Had Eve refrained from entering into argument with the tempter, she would have been safe; but she ventured to parley with him and fell a victim to his wiles. It is thus that many are still overcome. They doubt and argue concerning the requirements of God; and instead of obeying the divine commands, they accept human theories, which but disguise the devices of Satan." {DD 13.2}

Like the theory that the earth is billions of years old and Satan has been here since the beginning. Shame on the brother who teaches this.

The Fall of Satan
Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing great intelligence. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. But when God said to His Son, “Let us make man in our image,” Satan was jealous of Jesus. He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man, and because he was not, he was filled with envy, jealousy, and hatred. He desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. {EW 145.1}
Until this time all heaven had been in order, harmony, and perfect subjection to the government of God. It was the highest sin to rebel against His order and will. All heaven seemed in commotion. The angels were marshaled in companies, each division with a higher commanding angel at its head. Satan, ambitious to exalt himself, and unwilling to submit to the authority of Jesus, was insinuating against the government of God. Some of the angels sympathized with Satan in his rebellion, and others strongly contended for the honor and wisdom of God in giving authority to His Son. There was contention among the angels. Satan and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They wished to look into His unsearchable wisdom, and ascertain His purpose in exalting Jesus and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son. All the heavenly host were summoned to appear before the Father to have each case decided. It was there determined that Satan should be expelled from heaven, with all the angels who had joined him in the rebellion. Then there was war in heaven. Angels were engaged in the battle; Satan wished to conquer the Son of God and those who were submissive to His will. But the good and true angels prevailed, and Satan, with his followers, was driven from heaven. {EW 145.2}
After Satan and those who fell with him were shut out of heaven, and he realized that he had forever lost all its purity and glory, he repented, and wished to be reinstated in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any position that might be assigned him. But no; heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All heaven might be marred should he be taken back; for sin originated with him, and the seeds of rebellion were within him. Both he and his followers wept, and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But their sin—their hatred, their envy and jealousy—had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive its final punishment. {EW 146.1}
When Satan became fully conscious that there was no possibility of his being brought again into favor with God, his malice and hatred began to be manifest. He consulted with his angels, and a plan was laid to still work against God’s government. When Adam and Eve were placed in the beautiful garden, Satan was laying plans to destroy them. In no way could this happy couple be deprived of their happiness if they obeyed God. Satan could not exercise his power upon them unless they should first disobey God and forfeit His favor. Some plan must therefore be devised to lead them to disobedience that they might incur God’s frown and be brought under the more direct influence of Satan and his angels. It was decided that Satan should assume another form and manifest an interest for man. He must insinuate against God’s truthfulness and create doubt whether God did mean just what He said; next, he must excite their curiosity, and lead them to pry into the unsearchable plans of God—the very sin of which Satan had been guilty—and reason as to the cause of His restrictions in regard to the tree of knowledge. {EW 146.2}
The Fall of Man
Holy angels often visited the garden, and gave instruction to Adam and Eve concerning their employment and also taught them concerning the rebellion and fall of Satan. The angels warned them of Satan and cautioned them not to separate from each other in their employment, for they might be brought in contact with this fallen foe. (In the Garden) The angels also enjoined upon them to follow closely the directions God had given them, for in perfect obedience only were they safe. Then this fallen foe could have no power over them. {EW 147.1}
Satan commenced his work with Eve, to cause her to disobey. She first erred in wandering from her husband, next in lingering around the forbidden tree, and next in listening to the voice of the tempter, and even daring to doubt what God had said, “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” She thought that perhaps the Lord did not mean just what He said, and venturing, she put forth her hand, took of the fruit and ate. It was pleasing to the eye and pleasant to the taste. Then she was jealous that God had withheld from them what was really for their good, and she offered the fruit to her husband, thereby tempting him. She related to Adam all that the serpent had said and expressed her astonishment that he had the power of speech. {EW 147.2}
I saw a sadness come over Adam’s countenance. He appeared afraid and astonished. A struggle seemed to be going on in his mind. He felt sure that this was the foe against whom they had been warned, and that his wife must die. They must be separated. His love for Eve was strong, and in utter discouragement he resolved to share her fate. He seized the fruit and quickly ate it. Then Satan exulted. He had rebelled in heaven, and had gained sympathizers who loved him and followed him in his rebellion. He had fallen and caused others to fall with him. And he had now tempted the woman to distrust God, to inquire into His wisdom, and to seek to penetrate His all-wise plans. Satan knew that the woman would not fall alone. Adam, through his love for Eve, disobeyed the command of God, and fell with her. {EW 148.1}
The news of man’s fall spread through heaven. Every harp was hushed. The angels cast their crowns from their heads in sorrow. All heaven was in agitation. A council was held to decide what must be done with the guilty pair. The angels feared that they would put forth the hand, and eat of the tree of life, and become immortal sinners. But God said that He would drive the transgressors from the garden. Angels were immediately commissioned to guard the way of the tree of life. It had been Satan’s studied plan that Adam and Eve should disobey God, receive His frown, and then partake of the tree of life, that they might live forever in sin and disobedience, and thus sin be immortalized. But holy angels were sent to drive them out of the garden, and to bar their way to the tree of life. Each of these mighty angels had in his right hand something which had the appearance of a glittering sword. {EW 148.2}
Then Satan triumphed. He had made others suffer by his fall. He had been shut out of heaven, they out of Paradise. {EW 149.1}

Where is the garden and tree of life right now? Is it not in the New Jerusalem in heaven? Every unfallen created being goes there to eat of it. It is in the presence of the Father, the giver of life, and the river of life flows through it. The garden is the Gate to heaven. But every created being was to be tested by the tree of knowledge of good and evil which was also in the midst of the Garden. Satan and his angels were in a prison of darkness until Adam was cast out of Eden and opened the way for Satan and all of the fallen angels to leave their prison, the place the demons are terrified of. The place that is coming for them again, but this time on top of being exiled into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth they also have to witness the end results of their rebellion and be forced to stay upon the remains of the earth which they destroyed.

You wrote, "Lets see what you do with the information that you so challengingly asked." I'm not sure what you meant by this, but please understand that I mean no harm. My questions are asked in all honesty and sincerity. I am a true seeker.

1. "Did God create the earth to cast the devil on it, or for Adam?" I believe Jesus created innumerable planets throughout the far-flung universe a long, long time ago. Perhaps He intended to populate them with free moral agents over time. Maybe He intended for humans to increase in numbers and populate them over time. At any rate, 6,000 years ago Jesus recreated earth for mankind. But before He did so, He cast the evil angels here. Creating us on the same planet He cast the evils angels suggests He was giving A&E an opportunity to disprove Satan's accusations and to establish God's honor and glory beyond all question or doubt.

2. "Was the devil here before God created a perfect planet? Doesn't sound very perfect to me with him here." Yes, the evil angels were here before Jesus recreated it with plants, animals, and A&E. Of course, their access to A&E was restricted to the forbidden tree.

3. "Is the bible in error when it says Satan appeared at the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, no where else after his fall until Adam sinned?" I'm not certain where it says so in the Bible, but Ellen makes it very clear it was even so.


Do you have the gift of prophecy? If so, is it equivalent in authority to the ministry of prophets like Paul, John, and Ellen?


I would be interested in hearing your answers to my questions. Thank you.

It was nice talking with you. I'm sure you will understand if I chose not to continue this argument.

Peace.

Yes, of course. It was good. God bless.

I've been thinking I'm not sure friction relates to stars burning and burning out. When friction is involved, that is from a side effect of the targeted purpose. However, for a star to be burning, I don't see how friction is involved. The targeted goal is to burn!

If stars burning out happened only after sin, then it would mean before sin, they did not burn out, which would then imply there is no conservation of energy. Which then would bring into question, is conservation of energy a result of sin? Meaning, before sin there was no conservation of energy? Which then, without sin, would there be perpetual motion machines?

This creates some situations I cannot understand.

Further thinking didn't help much. A piece of wood left exposed to the elements will soon rot away. I would agree this is a result of sin. However, if I burn a piece of wood, it disappears, it is "used up". The process is no different. The oxidation reaction is merely sped up. (Can you start a fire in heaven?)


Which then gave the question as if the mere process of combustion, whether slowly or quickly, is a result of sin. Which then brought up whether stars burned before sin?.....

(Maybe they only reflected?)

I'm pretty sure it does not. I was referring to mechanical processes like turning the potential energy of gasoline into the kinetic energy of a moving car. Come to think of it, if there was no friction, the engine would be extremely efficient, but the car cannot go anywhere because the tires would have no traction.

Anyway, the energy conversion in a star is about as efficient as it gets: E=mc^2.


Not necessarily. I could also mean that God continually refills it, like a giant basket of fish and bread.


I think that question can help lead us to some solid conclusions.

My answer is that we can start a fire in heaven. And if the fire goes out, I don't think that would be caused by sin.