But if God has to refill it, that would mean the star is being consumed. Unless all energy is "recycled" through God?


A further thought is, what would it burn? Something dead and dry?

But I don't think the fire going out is the issue, but the star being consumed.

Another thought along the same line: What process happens when the lion eats grass in a perfect universe?

Tom, Arnold, and Kland, would you mind answering the following questions:

1. "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev 12:7-9). In what sense were evils angels "cast into the earth"?

2. "Then there was war in heaven. . . and Satan and his sympathizers were expelled from heaven". {SR 19.1} Where did they go?

3. "Cast out of heaven, Satan set up his kingdom in this world, and ever since, he has been untiringly striving to seduce human beings from their allegiance to God." {7BC 973.5} When did he set up his kingdom here?

Satan was cast out of heaven by degrees.

-First out of the throne room of the Father,

-Then out of the presence of angels into the darkness.

-Then he made Adam to sin letting him out of his jail to enter before the angels again.

-Then when he lead men to kill the Son of God on the cross it forever cast him out of the hearts of everyone in heaven.

Here is proof.

"The casting down of Satan as an accuser of the brethren in heaven was accomplished by the great work of Christ in giving up His life. Notwithstanding Satan’s persistent opposition, the plan of redemption was being carried out. Man was esteemed of sufficient value for Christ to sacrifice His life for him. Satan, knowing that the empire he had usurped would in the end be wrested from him, determined to spare no pains to destroy as many as possible of the creatures whom God had created in His image. He hated man because Christ had manifested for him such forgiving love and pity, and he now prepared to practice upon him every species of deception by which he might be lost; he pursued his course with more energy because of his own hopeless condition (The Spirit of Prophecy 3:194, 195).

(2 Corinthians 5:19; Philippians 2:6.) Satan Uprooted From Affections of the Universe—In carrying out his enmity to Christ until He hung upon the cross of Calvary, with wounded, bruised body and broken heart, Satan completely uprooted himself from the affections of the universe. It was then seen that God had in His Son denied Himself, giving Himself for the sins of the world, because He loved mankind. The Creator was revealed in the Son of the infinite God. Here the question, “Can there be self-denial with God?” was forever answered. Christ was God, and condescending to be made flesh, He assumed humanity and became obedient unto death, that He might undergo infinite sacrifice (Manuscript 50, 1900).

(John 3:14-17; Galatians 6:14; Hebrews 9:22.) Accusing Power of Satan Broken—Christ on the cross, not only draws men to repentance toward God for the transgression of His law—for whom God pardons He first makes penitent—but Christ has satisfied justice; He has proffered Himself as an atonement. His gushing blood, His broken body, satisfy the claims of the broken law, and thus He bridges the gulf which sin has made. He suffered in the flesh that with His bruised and broken body He might cover the defenseless sinner. The victory gained at His death on Calvary broke forever the accusing power of Satan over the universe, and silenced his charges that self-denial was impossible with God and therefore not essential in the human family (Manuscript 50, 1900).

"Like the apostles, the seventy had received supernatural endowments as a seal of their mission. When their work was completed, they returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name.” Jesus answered, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” {DA 490.1}
The scenes of the past and the future were presented to the mind of Jesus. He beheld Lucifer as he was first cast out from the heavenly places. He looked forward to the scenes of His own agony, when before all the worlds the character of the deceiver should be unveiled. He heard the cry, “It is finished” (John 19:30), announcing that the redemption of the lost race was forever made certain, that heaven was made eternally secure against the accusations, the deceptions, the pretensions, that Satan would instigate. {DA 490.2}
Beyond the cross of Calvary, with its agony and shame, Jesus looked forward to the great final day, when the prince of the power of the air will meet his destruction in the earth so long marred by his rebellion. Jesus beheld the work of evil forever ended, and the peace of God filling heaven and earth. {DA 490.3}
Henceforward Christ’s followers were to look upon Satan as a conquered foe. Upon the cross, Jesus was to gain the victory for them; that victory He desired them to accept as their own. “Behold,” He said, “I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.” {DA 490.4}

Satan being cast out of heaven was finalized at the cross, but here Jesus also made it clear that when men shall do His will and cast out demons from the minds of others, Satan is also being cast down then.

"But the work of human redemption is not all that is accomplished by the cross. The love of God is manifested to the universe. The prince of this world is cast out. The accusations which Satan has brought against God are refuted. The reproach which he has cast upon heaven is forever removed. Angels as well as men are drawn to the Redeemer. “I, if I be lifted up from the earth,” He said, “will draw all unto Me.” {DA 626.1}

James,

You posted this passage, "The casting down of Satan as an accuser of the brethren in heaven was accomplished by the great work of Christ in giving up His life." During which degree or stage did this happen (referring to your list above)?

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev 12:7-9). During which degree or stage did this happen?

You wrote, "Then out of the presence of angels into the darkness." Where is this "darkness"?

Mark5:6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshipped him; 7 and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come forth, thou unclean spirit, out of the man. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he saith unto him, My name is Legion; for we are many. 10 And he (the demon) besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

Luke 8:31 And they entreated him that he would not command them to depart into the abyss.

They did not want to be tormented in that place of darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. They hated the thought so much they would rather be cast into the sea inside a pig. How did they learn of this place to fear it so much? Because they had already experienced it at their fall.

The second resurrection has all of these elements but is for the unrepentant sinners to suffer the same fate while being sustained with a place to stand for men to see the judgment.

James, the universe was perfect when Jesus created it. The "place of darkness" you described "where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth" did not exist. When did Jesus create it? Where was it then, and where is it now?

You posted this passage, "The casting down of Satan as an accuser of the brethren in heaven was accomplished by the great work of Christ in giving up His life." During which degree or stage did this happen (referring to your list above)?

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev 12:7-9). During which degree or stage did this happen?

Brother, do I have to do your investigation for you? Or could you make a little effort yourself seeing it is so important for you to understand?

First off how could the universe be perfect if as you say Satan was already here?

If you would read just one verse further in the Rev 12 text quoted, you would see when this happened (not to mention the SOP texts that have already been quoted). OK here it is, open up. This is when Satan was permanently cast out of heaven...

If you will look at the quoted chapter 12 in Revelation, you see Jesus ascended to heaven in verse 5. But in verse 10 is where Satan was permanently cast out...

10 And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night.

How could Satan accuse the brethren if when Satan was originally cast out of heaven they weren't created yet?

You find this same theme throughout the new testament including...

Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Here's more support.

Look at Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."

1: how could Satan be the "ancient serpent" here if this is when he was originally kicked out of heaven? Satan became the serpent at his fall and there wasn't an ancient past for the world before that time because Adam fell at the beginning.

2: the "deceiver of the whole world" proves there was a whole world to deceive, not just two people like at the beginning of earth. So this is when Jesus became the second Adam, thus Satan was cast out of the place of meeting for the sons of God.

I see two casting outs here; one around the time of creation and the other around the time of the cross or tree of Calvary.