Well I'm glad that you are attempting to clear up your opinion, Roseangela about deathless angels, as it sure sounded a bit strange for awhile there! Maybe you can hone in a wee bit more, please.

So apparently you agree: None have life without Him, therefore those who rebel against Him (sin against Him, because they have the sin nature or disease) will die two deaths if human and one if angelic rebels. This is how we humans can be unlike the angels.

However I think Luke 20:36 should be seen in context; what was the trick question asked of the Lord by the cult of the Sadducees, the anti-resurrectionists, based on? Marriage in the after-life,a tenant they sneered at anyway.

Christ was comparing members of this world with members of the royal family, like the angels are.

Christ pointed out that only those humans that are "accounted worthy" will even be in a position of being in that world, like the angels; therefore they must not have any taint of sin, like the angels. Nor will they die, like the angels, nor marry, like the angels.

The word "equal" in the verse in the greek is isaggelos, best translated "like an angel or angelic", not identical. We will not be in nature identical to them, but the righteous will be amazingly above them in station. They will be twice born, an remarkable creation that angels will never experiance.

Yes, we will live forever in God's glory, His consuming fire of righteousness with the angels and will nevr die, for the Sin Disease will be gone, in us, and the universe will be clean, just as it has never been in the good angels in their realms.

That , I think, was/is Christ's point to the Jewish cultists: the absolute necessity of being worthy of being called from the dead to live among the angels in a sinless world, a world not burdened with romances and marriage making.

"The words of Christ are too plain to be misunderstood.They should forever settle the question of marriages and births in the new earth. Neither those who shall be raised from the dead, nor those who shall be translated without seeing death, will marry or be given in marriage. They will be as the angels of God {equal to?}, members of the royal family. {1SM 172.3}

How does all this lead to an increased understanding of salvation? Salvation of the wicked remembering that before rebirth we where also counted among them. How does all these words lead to a deeper understanding of our salvation and the salvation of those who have not yet joined us in Gods royal family?

/Thomas

Hi Ikan,
I just wanted to say thank you so much for your very meaningful post of May 31, 9:05pm of which I quote a section below.

quote:

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"The work of Christ in cleansing the leper from his terrible disease is an illustration of His work in cleansing the soul from sin. The man who came to Jesus was "full of leprosy." Its deadly poison permeated his whole body. The disciples sought to prevent their Master from touching him; for he who touched a leper became himself unclean. But in laying His hand upon the leper, Jesus received no defilement. His touch imparted life-giving power. The leprosy was cleansed. Thus it is with the leprosy of sin,--deep-rooted, deadly, and impossible to be cleansed by human power. {DA 266.1}

Now to me this sounds much more lethal than you will agree with. She makes no distinction between the soul and the body. Perhaps you see the side effects of a leper’s horrific life, the missing fingers, the mottled skin and the disfigured face, as the disease. It is not. It is the reactions to the disease. The disease is in the blood stream, the immune system, deep within the sufferer. Sin is as literal as that. It’s a rotting debility, biblically called “corruption”. It is the prime reason why we will need new bodies at the resurrection. You can get the new spirit now.

A thief must let Christ take away his thief’s heart, not merely his "rap sheet".

Sin is a disease, as real as any leper's, that no amount of sewing fingers back on, or promising to not to lose anymore can halt. It is the sin-master within, controlled by Satan that must be given to Christ to crucify, so that He can put a new heart into a man. Not a patch up or a re-education or a adjusting to one's mental viewpoint, or even agreement with the Three Angel's messages can equate with a new heart, a new spirit, a death of the sin nature within.

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Well, if Rosangela is agreed, since she did say that we need to be saved from sin and destruction; whether we could deal with it one at a time. Since we are agreed that sin is present and active, while Rosangela considers the destruction as something to come; whether we could deal with the more imminent danger first - namely sin. Perhaps after that sin is dealt with, we will have a better understanding of the destruction.

So what is sin, that makes us wicked; that we need to be saved from? How are the wicked saved from the sin that makes them wicked? What does it mean to be wicked?

P.S. I think there are some tips in Ikan's quote above.

"So what is sin, that makes us wicked;"

Sin is at its root selfishness and unbelief. Putting ourselves ahead of another makes us wicked. Unbelief fosters selfishness and inhibits our ability to be healed.

"that we need to be saved from?"

Sin brings self-condemnation and self-loathing upon oneself. It also causes us to view God in a way He is not, which leads us to separate ourselves from Him. Adam and Eve are a good example of this principle. Christ is also an example of how strong sin is. Even He was tempted, as Ps. 22 shows.

"How are the wicked saved from the sin that makes them wicked?"

The twin problems of self-condemnation and not viewing God as He is are solved by perceiving the truth -- i.e. to see God as He really is. The whole purpose of Christ's mission was to reveal God's character and thus set men right with God.

"What does it mean to be wicked?"

To be wicked is to be selfish. Unselishness is the fundamental principle of God's government.

Tom and Ikan,

I replied to your previous posts in the thread "Destruction of the Wicked".

I agree completely with what Tom and Ikan said about sin. Sin is the opposite of love. Sin is self-love, self-idolatry, while love is self-denial for the good of others. To be wicked means to be entirely devoted to selfishness, which is “the strongest and most general of human impulses” (CS 25). How are the wicked saved from sin? Only by being born again, when self is dethroned and Christ assumes the first place in the heart. And when Christ is living in the heart, His love will be manifest in the life.
My conversion took place 30 years ago, when I was 16. I remember how I felt empty and considered life meaningless, and Christ reached out to me when suicide was a serious consideration in my mind.
And I wonder why some people accept Christ so readily, while others don’t feel any need of Him? That’s why I think that many times the approach to show people that the end is near and that, as they are, they will die, may sometimes produce good results. IOW, I consider that sometimes it is more efficacious to speak about the destruction to come instead of the present destruction caused by sin. This can shock people to their senses, and although fear is the initial motivation, the Holy Spirit can then lead the person to the correct motivation, which is love.

"Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? (Rom. 2:4)"

Given that it is the goodness of God which leads to repentance, it seems to me the best way to lead the unsaved to repentance is to make clear to them the goodness of God.

How would you lead someone to understand that they need God if they feel comfortable in sin?

Thanks are due to the Lord for that post, John as it was He who gave me those words above. I take no credit for His illustrations.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rosangela:
How would you lead someone to understand that they need God if they feel comfortable in sin?

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Frankly, I don't rely on my efforts for "leading" anyone. I am a strong advocate of not constructing elaborate programs on how to reach the unsaved, as I have no window to anyone's heart.
I expect the Spirit to educate me, on the spot, on how to present the Gospel to a certain person or crowd. He has never failed me, yet all my plans have always failed.

Yet He has never had me frighten, threaten, terrorize, or force anyone to come to Him. Yes, I am aware of the verse concerning "snatching them as a fire-brand from the fire", but I think it has been woefully abused, as the Roman Church's subterfuge for forced "conversions" through fear, earthly and unearthly.

I doubt any lasting "conversion" is possible based on fear or even "self-preservation"; makinga comfortable sinner uncomfortable is the Holy Spirit's task, not mine, and He knows how to do it best. My task is to uplift Christ crucified by my sins.