You may not be paying attention to what I'm saying. I've never defended a Nisan 14 on a Friday for the year 31 A.D.


First of all, it's no desperate attempt at all.


???
Didn't I say that a lunar month could have 29 or 30 days and that both possibilities must be considered in this case for the previous month (Schaefer's article and all that)? And, by the way, full moon is a lunar phase which lasts roughly seven days. So, Passover would generally fall close to this phase (since the month begins with the new moon), but not necessarily on the first day of the full moon.

The time interval between similar lunar phases—the synodic month—averages about 29.53 days. Therefore, in those lunar calendars in which each month begins on the new moon, the full moon falls on either the 14th or 15th of the lunar month. Because lunar months have a whole number of days, lunar months may be either 29 or 30 days long.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_moon


Please read my post #139933 and reply to it. Thank you.

Maybe I should have emphasized "we". But even back then, I believe there was discrepancies.

But what do you make of the commentary then? I forget where I was reading it, but it was in the front section of a volume and I think it was regarding Jesus' date of death.

The Sanhedrin sent official observers to stand on vantage points at sunset on the 29th of a month, and they scanned the western sky. If the crescent moon was spotted, the Sanhedrin would proclaim the Feast of the New Moon. If it wasn't, the Feast would be proclaimed on the next day. The temple priests verified if the barley had reached the stage of "abib" in order to determine if the year was going to begin or if an intercalary month had to be added.


The SDABC, for instance, assumes the untenable position that Christ died on a Nisan 14 in 31 A.D. The insistence on the idea that Christ died on a Nisan 14, which cannot be sustained by the synoptic gospels, led them to suggest that perhaps there were different groups observing the Passover on different days at Christ's time.

I found it again on pages 532-537 of Vol 5 and a reference to 248-264 for the date of His death.

Were there different groups observing the Passover on different days at Christ's time? The Pharisees vs. the Boethusian Saducees?

Yes, I see you're trying to prove that Jesus died on Nisan 15th. However, what do you do with Ellen White writings that confirms that Jesus died on Nisan 14th in fulfilling prophesy in the appointed time?


There's no room for extending a day in March 31AD as on the night of the 13th the moon visibility rate was easy to see by 100% giving it was not cloudy. However, you are taking the month of April which the moon conjuction is 1 day later, and the probability to see the first crescent on the Wednesday was not difficult according to Roy Hoffman's calculation having a 73% chance of being seen. However, let's give you that extra day in case it was cloudy and most moon observers was not on their post. So this would extend Nisan 14th to a Thursday instead of a Wednesday in the month of April.


The data that NASA provides concerning full moon is not the first day of the full moon. It is when the moon is totally full which doesn't last for 7 days.


I appreciate this clarification. As I was going through Roy Hoffman's software to note the calculated ease of visibility rate and reproducing many calendars; I came to see that it does occur on the 15th at times.

AV Ex 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip [it] in the blood that [is] in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that [is] in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

However, here’s a comment from a SDA that I believe has lots of soundness and talks in accordance to the Spirit of the Torah :


A. There is no way Jesus could of eaten the Passover meal on the night of Nisan 15th with His disciples because He knew He was going to be killed. This is what you would classify a “legitimate extenuated circumstance”.

If you read Num 9:6-14 here is another “legitimate extenuated circumstance” where the Lord gives a second opportunity for men to keep the Passover on the second month instead of the first. However, if you read carefully, the lamb still needed to be slain on the 14th day of that 2nd month.

B. The eating of the Passover lamb(or unleavened bread in the NT) was to be fulfilled by the believer yearly; whereas, the lamb that was to be slain could only be fulfilled once by Jesus alone. The slain lamb (Jesus) was the foundation of the whole Passover Feast(Nisan 14 when lamb ws slain, Nisan 15-21 of unleavened bread, and the wave sheaf day).

• The eaten of it was to be practice as a memorial, on the night of the 15th day of Nisan by the believer as a gesture of faith. This feast to be a 7 day feast is to emphasize of the continual aspect in daily eating Jesus unleavened flesh and blood. This is the spirit of the Torah that is practice by the believer on a continual basis.
• Whereas, the Antitype meets the Type of the Passover lamb, was only done on one day in the whole world history. For sure Jesus sacrifice covers and extends all time of earth history. But the fulfillment was done only by Christ, one time,on a specific appointed day according to the Law. To concile scripture with history, Pilate was governor of Judea from 30 AD to 36 AD. So Jesus had to be crucifixed sometime between those years by which Nisan 14th fell on a Friday on 30AD and 33AD.

According to Torah, the first day of unleavenened bread was on the night of Nisan 15th.

AV Lv 23:6 “And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].”

The feast of unleavened bread was a 7 day feast that started after the lamb was killed in the night of 14/15th Day. It was not a 8 days feast. I understand that it can be express in that way since Nissan 14th was a preparation day of the feast of unleavened bread and people could of counted that as a day. However, to be very specific and technically speaking, the feast of unleavened bread started on the night of the 14th/15th which is Nisan 15th. Nisan 14th was a preparation day and the last day people had to remove all the leaven from their house so they wouldn’t be cut out of the congregation, and had to kill the lamb before sundown.

Nisan 15th was the 1st day of unleavened bread that was a type of Sabbath day with no work allowed. Nisan 21st was the 7th day of unleavened bread which was another Sabbath day. The fact that Nisan 15th happened on an actual 7th day Sabbath, that’s why scripture referred to that day as a Hi-Sabbath because a convocation Sabbath day happened on a 7th day Sabbath.



The “on” word is an added word in that translation. If that day was actually “on” the first day of unleavened bread, then that would have been on a Nisan 15th which would have been too late to do any “preparation” for it. This erroneous translation makes the purpose of the disciples question nil as it makes no sense to prepare a meal when the day has already arrived to eat it. You don’t prepare for Sabbath on the Sabbath day do you?



The problem with your emphasis and scripture selection, is assuming that 1) that Nisan 14 is the first day of unleavened bread, and 2) that the english translations you picked implies that it was already the first day of unleavened bread which makes no sense for the question to prepare for it, if it already came.

Let’s take Mt 26:17 to clarify the matter.

YLT Mt 26:17 . And [on](an added word) the first day of the unleavened food came(proselthon, comes from the word proserchomai, meaning to approach. This word is literally translated in the interlinear as “toward came” or “approached” however many Bibles have translated it as “came”. ) the disciples near to Jesus, saying to him, 'Where wilt thou that we may prepare for thee to eat the passover?'

So the word “proselthon” means that the day of unleavened bread was approaching. It could have been one day or two days ahead. With the approaching important first day of unleavened bread with no work, then it makes sense that the disciples would inquire beforehand to make the necessary preperation for it.

But note that there is no mention of eating a lamb at that Passover meal.

Here are the “circumstantial applications” to the Passover Jesus did :
1) no lamb killed;
2) adding the wine;
3)no blood painted on the lintel;
4)no eating standing up with staff in the hand;
5)no staying in the house all night;
6)added foot washing;
7)with family in the faith instead family in the household.

Here is what He preserve from the original
1)make preperation, to remove all leaven from the place
2)eat unleavened bread

We, like the Jews, tend to read and keep the letter of the law without knowing the spirit (intend) of the law according to the Father’s heart and mind. Whereas Jesus knew the intent of the LAW for He’s the one that gave it and He knows how to apply it in all circumstances without breaking it and removing one "iota" from it and fulfill it all.

Yes they ask, and it was "behoving" of them to keep this feast as customary. However, they ask before Nisan 14th because the night of Nisan 13/14th Jesus was arrested.

It is not unreasonable to ask this question on Nisan 13th considering it was a big important feast that required extensive preparation in removing all the leaven in the house. That means the house or room had to be thoroughly cleaned from head to toe. However, what the disciple didn't know that the Antitype was about to be fulfilled and therefore circumstances on how to keep the feast was about to change too.

If at Jesus time it became customary to also refer to Nisan 14th as the feast of unleavened bread, then it was only a way of expression. They all knew that according to the law the first day of unleavened bread was on Nisan 15th as the law is very clear on that.

In conclusion, Matt. 26:17, Mark 14:12 and Luke 22:7 is all refer to the “first day of the unleavened food” which was a referal of Nisan 15 that was to be kept like a Sabbath day with no work allowed. Many translation has added the word “on” to imply it was the first day of the unleavened bread when the disciple ask the question; however this defeat the question logic. Why ask to prepare for it, if the day has already come.

So, am I correct in gathering that Elle and Rosangela have now both found Nisan 15 as the proper day for Christ to have been crucified?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Elle, it's clear this applied to the Passover in Egypt. They had to stay inside their houses until the morning because the firstborns would die if they were outside. In the subsequent Passovers this obviously didn't happen.


He knew He was going to be killed and so He couldn't have eaten the Passover on Nisan 15? Sorry, I didn't understand the logic of this.


The Passover lamb couldn't be slain on the 11th, on the 12th, on the 13th, on the 15th - it had to be slain on the 14th, and eaten on the 15th.


It's clear in the Bible that the gospel writers are referring to the 14th as the first day of unleavened bread, for they say that this was the day on which the Passover lamb had to be killed.


They prepared the Passover on the Passover day - the lamb could only be prepared (slain and roasted) on that day. And the Passover day, at Christ's time, was evidently called "the first day of unleavened bread."


The verb translated as "came" here refers to the disciples, not to the day.
Besides, Luke's testimony refutes what you've just said.

Luke 22:1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near [eggizo], which is called Passover.
Luke 22:7 Then came [erchomai] the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed.

Notice the difference in Luke's words. In v. 1 he says the feast was approaching, and in v. 7 he says the day had arrived (erchomai, not proserchomai). Notice also that he says that "the Feast of Unleavened Bread ... is called Passover."


There is the mention that the lamb was prepared, so obviously they ate the lamb.

Mark 14:12 And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the passover lamb, his disciples said to him, "Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the passover?"


???
Jesus observed the Passover on the right day, and was arrested on the night of the 15th.

I'm afraid this is not the case in relation to Elle, GC.

Whaa? Not the first day of the full moon? You gonna haf ta splain that statement.