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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #139043
01/22/12 04:19 PM
01/22/12 04:19 PM
cephalopod  Offline
Active Member 2014
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 252
Washington, USA
Ellie, when Scripture uses the word "ALL", "WHOLE" & "WORLD" - depending on the context...
...Simply means "some" OF all parts.


i.e.


John 12:19
The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him

The "world" certainly didn't follow Jesus...
...But SOME of the total exposed to Jesus did.




Rev 12: 9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the WHOLE world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Satan didn't ( if all or even some are to be saved )...
...Deceive the WHOLE world.
...Some of all or ALL of all ( as you think ) are not fooled.


Luke 2:1
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

Caesar indeed controlled the world that was known at that time...
...However Ceasar didn't have the power to tax the WHOLE or ALL the world.
...There were societies at that time, nations - that had never heard of "Caesar".

So, ya see for this one I don't even need to rely on Sock Puppet....
...The so called Bible answers it plainly.

Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: cephalopod] #139213
01/27/12 10:06 PM
01/27/12 10:06 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: cephalopod
Ellie, when Scripture uses the word "ALL", "WHOLE" & "WORLD" - depending on the context...
...Simply means "some" OF all parts.

i.e.
John 12:19
The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him

The "world" certainly didn't follow Jesus...
...But SOME of the total exposed to Jesus did.
I agree that at times it can be an expression. This passage appears to be such a situation. I say appears because I haven't pondered and studied in detail this passage.

It's the same type of expression with us when we say "He's in the world".


Originally Posted By: Cephalopod
Rev 12: 9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the WHOLE world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

Satan didn't ( if all or even some are to be saved )...
...Deceive the WHOLE world.
...Some of all or ALL of all ( as you think ) are not fooled.
Here I disagree with you for Satan did deceive the whole world including all those that are the firstfruits to be ressurected. Everyone were in darkness and all needs to be given light to see. Jesus, the Word of G-d, is that light.


Originally Posted By: Cephalopod
Luke 2:1
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

Caesar indeed controlled the world that was known at that time...
...However Ceasar didn't have the power to tax the WHOLE or ALL the world.
...There were societies at that time, nations - that had never heard of "Caesar".
Here they didn’t use Kosmos as the two other examples above. They used another word "oikoumene" which primary meaning is "land".

In John 12:19 and Rev12;9 and most other NT English “world” translation(186 occurences) use the word Kosmos which Strong has define as followed: orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)).
Originally Posted By: Cephalopod
So, ya see for this one I don't even need to rely on Sock Puppet....
...The so called Bible answers it plainly.
I already know you don’t need Sock Puppet for you have Jesus who is the one to give you the interpretation (1Jn 2:27).

Regarding to your point, its just passing wind. There’s nothing concrete there. Feel free to look closer on the quotes provided and then we can look at the context and discuss on something more substantial.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139214
01/27/12 10:08 PM
01/27/12 10:08 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Here are all the Bible references that contains the words the second death:
Quote:

Rev. 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.

Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

Rev. 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.


Yes, and what's your point?


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139215
01/27/12 10:34 PM
01/27/12 10:34 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
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Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Elle,

What's my point?

I posted what my point was in my very next post after the one you quoted in your previous post to this one.

As I am quoting my next post here, you can read that post again here.

Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Read what EGW wrote about this at the following link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/main/?page_id=88

Also look carefully and prayerfully at the Bible references she quoted there.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139217
01/27/12 11:05 PM
01/27/12 11:05 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Here is another Bible reference I came across while researching something else:
Quote:
Psalm 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

The key word is destroy in that He will destroy the wicked, which obviously refers to when they are cast into the lake of fire, which again is the second death, from which there isn't any resurrection.

Well, that Hebrew word is “shamad” which true meaning is “to desolate” also translated as plucked down, overthrow, etc….

If you read Hosea 2, the Lord explains how he will “destroy” us. For sure we all die the first death, but death for the Lord is only a sleep for He can bring to life anything. There’s nothing, not even death that can separate us from the Love of G-d. Hosea 2 show very clearly that the Lord needs to destroy us before we are in a disposition to be able to hear Him and to need Him. Destruction is part of the process for us to “learn Righteousness”.

I agree the lake of fire(baptism of fire = laver = the molten laver in the sanctuary) is the second death which is a spiritual death not a physical death. The lost cannot die the 1st(physical) death a second time which would contradict Heb 9:27.

Also, death was destroy(Rev 20:14) just prior to the people cast in the lake of fire.

So scripturly it is not possible for anyone to die the 1st(physical) death a second time in the lake of fire.

Also, remember that the word “destroy” both in the OT(h6, abad) and the NT(g622 apollumi) means differently than what you, and the world has defined. This is the true essence of the word “destroy” :

Ps 119:176 “I have gone astray like a lost lost (abad) sheep; seek thy servant;”

Jer 50:6 “My people hath been lost (abad) sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away [on] the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.”

Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together [his] friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost (apollumi).

Luk 15:9 “And when she hath found [it], she calleth [her] friends and [her] neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost (apollumi).

Luk 15:24 “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost (apollumi), and is found. And they began to be merry. »

What was destroyed(abad, apollumi) in Jesus parable all are found.

Then Jesus said of himself For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost(apollumi =destroyed).”


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139219
01/27/12 11:33 PM
01/27/12 11:33 PM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Elle,

What's my point?

I posted what my point was in my very next post after the one you quoted in your previous post to this one.

As I am quoting my next post here, you can read that post again here.

Originally Posted By: Daryl F
Read what EGW wrote about this at the following link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/main/?page_id=88

Also look carefully and prayerfully at the Bible references she quoted there.

I've read it, I still don't see your point. Sorry. If there some Biblical texts with a specific point you want to bring forth into this discussion, that would help me know exactly what you are thinking of.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #139221
01/27/12 11:55 PM
01/27/12 11:55 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
I will quote one of the more clear things that EGW said in relation to the Bible references she also referred to.

Quote:
Says an inspired writer, “Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be; yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.” And another declares, “They shall be as though they had not been.” [Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16.] Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion. {GC88 544.2}

Ellen White in commenting on these two Bible references states that the wicked "sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion."

Can't get more clearer than that.

The second death is eternal oblivion.

There isn't any third or whatever resurrection from this second death.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139370
02/02/12 12:50 AM
02/02/12 12:50 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
No further comments regarding what I quoted and commented on?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #139379
02/02/12 02:52 PM
02/02/12 02:52 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
The following refers to "all flesh" in the sense of the saved, but doesn't include those described as "dead bodies":
Quote:
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make stand before Me, says Jehovah, so will your seed and your name stand.
23 And it will be, from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Jehovah.
24 And they will go out and see the dead bodies of the men who have sinned against Me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be put out; and they will be an object of disgust to all flesh.

The words "all flesh" obviously refers to all the redeemed, but not to all humanity.

The words "dead bodies" obviously refers to all the lost.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Daryl] #140372
03/05/12 02:44 AM
03/05/12 02:44 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
John 3:16 says that "whosoever believeth in Him should not perish", which tells me using KJV of the English language that those who believeth not in Him should perish.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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