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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14050
06/17/05 07:18 PM
06/17/05 07:18 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote: Micah 7 18 Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy.
quote: Micah 6 6 With what shall I come before the LORD and bow down before the exalted God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
quote: Hosea 6 6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
What do we learn from these? God longs to give mercy. He counts mercy before offerings, even when such offerings where required by the levitical law. Yet they where nothing when given with a hard heart.
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14051
06/17/05 09:08 PM
06/17/05 09:08 PM
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OP
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Ontario
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14052
06/18/05 12:28 AM
06/18/05 12:28 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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The King also says, "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Rom 12:19. There are some things the King reserves unto Himself.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14053
06/18/05 01:10 AM
06/18/05 01:10 AM
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OP
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Is the reason why the Lord said, not to avenge ourselves, so that we would be like him, or unlike him.
Is our idea of vengeance the same as his?
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
All manner of sin shall be forgiven men but blasphemy against the holy spirit shall not be forgiven.
In this parable the servant owed much and it was all forgiven, but his lack of forgiveness (fruit of spirit) toward his fellow servant was not forgiven. This mercy (fruit of spirit) was valued above all his debt.
Are we sure that our idea of justice is the same as God’s?
Is it not reasonable to realize that if this servant could have been saved from his own wrath, and endowed with the king's grace, that he would have been in the king’s favor, and that the king would have rejoiced over him.
So now what do we need to be saved from?
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14054
06/18/05 01:57 PM
06/18/05 01:57 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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There is decisive evidence in the Bible that God reserves unto Himself the right to punish and destroy the rejecters of His grace. It is in mercy to the universe that He resurrects them and then destroys them in the lake of fire. Jesus has done everything He can do to save them, but alas, there is nothing more He can do. "Will young men now humble their hearts before God and give themselves to His service? Will they not accept the holy trust, and become light-bearers to a world ready to be consumed by the wrath of an offended God?" CME 38.
GC 539, 540 God has given in His word decisive evidence that He will punish the transgressors of His law. Those who flatter themselves that He is too merciful to execute justice upon the sinner, have only to look to the cross of Calvary. {GC 539.3}
GC 543 It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace. {GC 543.3}
PK 309 The heavy judgments that were to befall the impenitent, --war, exile, oppression, the loss of power and prestige among the nations,--all these were to come in order that those who would recognize in them the hand of an offended God might be led to repent. {PK 309.1}
5BC 1103 The human nature of Christ was like unto ours, and suffering was more keenly felt by Him; for His spiritual nature was free from every taint of sin. Therefore His desire for the removal of suffering was stronger than human beings can experience. How intense was the desire of the humanity of Christ to escape the displeasure of an offended God, how His soul longed for relief, is revealed in the words, "O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done." {5BC 1103.8}
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14055
06/19/05 01:04 AM
06/19/05 01:04 AM
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OP
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Ontario
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MM, your post has no context with salvation of the wicked, sounds like you should have posted in the "destruction of the wicked" topic.
The questions that I asked here are in context of salvation. I would like to hear the kind of things that would please the king.
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14056
06/19/05 01:29 AM
06/19/05 01:29 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote: Is the reason why the Lord said, not to avenge ourselves, so that we would be like him, or unlike him.
Is our idea of vengeance the same as his?
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom. 12:19-21)
Here is set before us the principle of vengeance: "Overcome evil with good." This is just what God does, and what he expects us to do. We are like God when we avenge ourselves by being like God: overcoming evil with good.
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14057
06/20/05 02:29 AM
06/20/05 02:29 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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God saves all men in the same way, that is, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus came to save us from sin, self and Satan. If we cooperate with Him, and walk in light as He is in the light, then we shall be saved. Otherwise, we will be punished and destroyed in the lake of fire with our sins. It is impossible to preach the truth apart from the whole truth. The third angel's message is a two fold promise - a promise of salvation and a promise of damnation.
Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
LDE 199, 200 Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message, and I have answered, "It is the third angel's message in verity."--1SM 372 (1890). {LDE 199.4}
GC 438 In contrast to those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, the third angel points to another class, against whose errors a solemn and fearful warning is uttered: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God." Revelation 14:9, 10. A correct interpretation of the symbols employed is necessary to an understanding of this message. What is represented by the beast, the image, the mark? {GC 438.1}
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14058
06/19/05 03:45 PM
06/19/05 03:45 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It's true that there's two sides of the coin, but neither side is arbitrary. Sin causes death, because it is contrary to the principles of life.
Eternal life is to know God (John 17:3). To know God, is was necessary for Him to reveal Himself. This He did by becoming a human being and making Himself visible and familiar to us. Christ revealed God in order to set us right and keep us right with God. If we respond to the revelation, then we may know God, which is eternal life. If we refuse to respond to the revelation, then sin will result in our death, because the light of the glory of God, which gives life to the righteous, will destroy those who refuse life.
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Re: Salvation of the wicked !!!
#14059
06/19/05 06:33 PM
06/19/05 06:33 PM
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OP
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Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Is it not reasonable to realize that if this servant could have been saved from his own wrath, and endowed with the king's grace, that he would have been in the king’s favor, and that the king would have rejoiced over him.
If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.
The meaning of the blood of Christ cleansing us from all sin, is in setting us free from our own righteousness/justice as that servant needed to be cleansed. Was he walking in the light as the king?
Do we walk in the light as the king does if we hold his justice as destructive? Are we not on the wrong side of the justice if we see it as such?
This parable has lessons for everyone: this servant, who had owed much, had sinned much, was forgiven. It does not say that he got into debt again. It actually intimates that he had gotten some funds (righteousness) even to the point of lending it to fellow servants (started telling others what they are to do). Obviously the one servant was not able to pay up (fulfil his wishes) so he used the law unlawfully; applied the nature of his righteousness to him.
How does that speak of us?
Do we not see why the king has sent his son into this world; whom our righteousness has crucified; that he may save us from our righteousness to God’s grace through his blood (spirit).
It should not be a point of contention, that the king is not pleased with any justice outside of the fruit of his spirit. How can we then accuse God of a justice outside of his spirit?
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