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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#142325
05/12/12 05:05 PM
05/12/12 05:05 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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I noticed something unusual about this quote you posted above James. Look at the highlighted parts: In the night I was, I thought, in a room but not in my own house. I was in a city, where I knew not, and I heard expression after expression. I rose up quickly in bed, and saw from my window large balls of fire. Jetting out were sparks, in the form of arrows, and buildings were being consumed, and in a very few minutes the entire block of buildings was falling and the screeching and mournful groans came distinctly to my ears. I cried out, in my raised position, to learn what was happening: Where am I? And where are our family circle? Then I awoke. But I could not tell where I was for I was in another place than home. I said, Oh Lord, where am I and what shall I do? It was a voice that spoke, "Be not afraid. Nothing shall harm you." {11MR 361.1}
I was instructed that destruction hath gone forth upon cities. The word of the Lord will be fulfilled. Isaiah 29:19-24 was repeated. I dared not move, not knowing where I was. I cried unto the Lord, What does it mean? These representations of destruction were repeated. Where am I? "In scenes I have represented that which will be; but warn My people to cease from putting their trust in men who are not obedient to my warnings and who despise My reproof, for the day of the Lord is right upon the world when evidence shall be made sure. Those who have followed the voices that would turn things upside down will themselves be turned where they cannot see, but will be as blind men.
One thing I noticed is that in this vision she sees an “entire block” of buildings fall. Sounds similar to NYC/9/11 doesn’t it? But the thing that arrested my attention is the repetition of the vision of destruction. If you look above she’s sleeping at first when she gets the first vision of destruction. Then she wakes up but still doesn’t know where she is and the same vision of destruction is repeated. Why?
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#142326
05/12/12 05:12 PM
05/12/12 05:12 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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There’s a similar curious interlude and repetition that occurs in the sealing vision from EW p.36 forward and LS p.116 forward. Notice the highlighted parts where the interlude/repetition occurs: At the commencement of the holy Sabbath, Jan. 5, 1849, we engaged in prayer with Brother Belden's family at Rocky Hill, Conn., and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. I was taken off in vision to the most holy place, where I saw Jesus still interceding for Israel. . .
I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. . .
Then my attending angel directed me to the city again, where I saw four angels winging their way to the gate of the city. They were just presenting the golden card to the angel at the gate, when I saw another angel flying swiftly from the direction of the most excellent glory, and crying with a loud voice to the other angels, and waving something up and down in his hand. I asked my attending angel for an explanation of what I saw. He told me that I could see no more then, but he would shortly show me what those things that I then saw meant. {LS 118.1}
Sabbath afternoon one of our number was sick, and requested prayers that he might be healed. We all united in applying to the Physician who never lost a case, and while healing power came down, and the sick was healed, the Spirit fell upon me, and I was taken off in vision. {LS 118.2}
I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised His hands, and with a voice of deep pity cried, "My blood, Father, My blood! My blood! My blood!" Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do in the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice, "Hold! hold! hold! hold! until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads." {LS 118.3}
I asked my accompanying angel the meaning of what I heard, and what the four angels were about to do. He said to me that it was God that restrained the powers, and that He gave His angels charge over things on the earth; that the four angels had power from God to hold the four winds, and that they were about to let them go; but while their hands were loosening, and the four winds were about to blow, the merciful eye of Jesus gazed on the remnant that were not sealed, and He raised His hands to the Father, and pleaded with Him that He had spilled His blood for them. Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels, and bid them hold, until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads. {LS 119.1} I don’t necessarily understand all the reasons why the sealing vision has this interlude but the parallel to the 1906 vision of falling buildings suggests to me that 9/11 could be the first phase of it; that the sealing is occurring now; that this is a special respite when the winds of strife are held in check. If that’s so, we should be closely examining ourselves. Also, we should expect a repetition of the destruction of 9/11 in the future but on a larger scale. As I was studying this I commented to my wife, ‘if I was Al Qaeda, my sights would be on the new world trade center'. And given al-Qaeda's history of simultaneous targeting, along with the Freedom Tower we should expect them to try to bring down as many of America’s skyscrapers at the same time as possible.
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#142327
05/12/12 05:23 PM
05/12/12 05:23 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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What makes Ellen White’s sealing vision especially timely and interesting is the context in which it was given. The editors of Life Sketches give the following background: [Following the return from western New York in September, 1848, Elder and Mrs. White journeyed to Maine, where they held a meeting with the believers, October 20-22. This was the Topsham Conference, where the brethren began praying that a way might be opened for publishing the truths connected with the advent message. A month later they were with "a small company of brethren and sisters," writes elder Joseph Bates in his pamphlet on "the sealing message," "assembled in meeting in Dorchester, near Boston, Mass." "Before the meeting commenced," he continues, "some of us were examining some of the points in the sealing message; some difference of opinion existed about the correctness of the view of the word 'ascending' [See Rev. 7:2], etc."
Elder James White, in an unpublished letter giving his account of this meeting, writes: "We all felt like uniting to ask wisdom from God on the points in dispute; also Brother Bates's duty in writing. We had an exceedingly powerful meeting. Ellen was again taken off in vision. She then began to describe the Sabbath light, which was the sealing truth. Said she: 'it arose from the rising of the sun. It arose back there in weakness, but light after light has shone upon it until the Sabbath truth is clear, weighty, and mighty. Like the sun when it first rises, its rays are cold, but as it comes up, its rays are warming and powerful; so the light and power has increased more and more until its rays are powerful, sanctifying the soul; but, unlike the sun, it will never set. The Sabbath light will be at its brightest when the saints are immortal; it will rise higher and higher until immortality comes.'
"She saw many interesting things about this glorious sealing Sabbath, which I have not time or space to record. She told brother Bates to write the things he had seen and heard, and the blessing of God would attend it."
It was after this vision that Mrs. White informed her husband of his duty to publish, and that as he should advance by faith, success would attend his efforts. (see page 125.)] The above context suggests that now and during of the next phase of the sealing our duty is to ‘proclaim the Sabbath more fully’. We should be bringing the importance of the Sabbath to the forefront now but during the latter rain the Sabbath will be demonstrated to be the sealing message on a global scale. It is in contrast to the mark of the beast, 666, a human institution, and the bases of a false global system of worship. I love homosexuals but their lifestyle is unscriptural. When the President takes a position that endorses and promotes this contrary to Scripture, when men think to change the times and laws of God, we know we’re living at the end.
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#142328
05/12/12 09:24 PM
05/12/12 09:24 PM
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OP
Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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I noticed something unusual about this quote you posted above James. Look at the highlighted parts: In the night I was, I thought, in a room but not in my own house. I was in a city, where I knew not, and I heard expression after expression. I rose up quickly in bed, and saw from my window large balls of fire. Jetting out were sparks, in the form of arrows, and buildings were being consumed, and in a very few minutes the entire block of buildings was falling and the screeching and mournful groans came distinctly to my ears. I cried out, in my raised position, to learn what was happening: Where am I? And where are our family circle? Then I awoke. But I could not tell where I was for I was in another place than home. I said, Oh Lord, where am I and what shall I do? It was a voice that spoke, "Be not afraid. Nothing shall harm you." {11MR 361.1}
I was instructed that destruction hath gone forth upon cities. The word of the Lord will be fulfilled. Isaiah 29:19-24 was repeated. I dared not move, not knowing where I was. I cried unto the Lord, What does it mean? These representations of destruction were repeated. Where am I? "In scenes I have represented that which will be; but warn My people to cease from putting their trust in men who are not obedient to my warnings and who despise My reproof, for the day of the Lord is right upon the world when evidence shall be made sure. Those who have followed the voices that would turn things upside down will themselves be turned where they cannot see, but will be as blind men.
One thing I noticed is that in this vision she sees an “entire block” of buildings fall. Sounds similar to NYC/9/11 doesn’t it? But the thing that arrested my attention is the repetition of the vision of destruction. If you look above she’s sleeping at first when she gets the first vision of destruction. Then she wakes up but still doesn’t know where she is and the same vision of destruction is repeated. Why? Wow Brother Mark, out of everyone I have talked online with on this subject the questions you pose are more profoundly associated with the Holy Spirit that speaks to me than anyone else I've talked with. you are closing in. This element that you are addressing here has not been fully realized but there is something there. I have not received answers to this question yet but have a inkling that it might have to do with a repeating of the events of 9/11 after we are awaken to the reality of this vision. First she's asleep in a room in a city that was not her own, then she wakes up still in that place not her own, so she awoke in vision in the future still in New York I believe. The first though of this came to me a month ago while watching the ceremony at ground zero on the one year anniversary of the death of Bin Laden when the new 'World Trade Center One' was celebrated for being the new tallest building in New York and someone in the crowd being interviewed said "this is prophetic, we are coming out of the ashes"...
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#142330
05/12/12 09:41 PM
05/12/12 09:41 PM
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OP
Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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|
There’s a similar curious interlude and repetition that occurs in the sealing vision from EW p.36 forward and LS p.116 forward. Notice the highlighted parts where the interlude/repetition occurs: At the commencement of the holy Sabbath, Jan. 5, 1849, we engaged in prayer with Brother Belden's family at Rocky Hill, Conn., and the Holy Ghost fell upon us. I was taken off in vision to the most holy place, where I saw Jesus still interceding for Israel. . .
I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. . .
Then my attending angel directed me to the city again, where I saw four angels winging their way to the gate of the city. They were just presenting the golden card to the angel at the gate, when I saw another angel flying swiftly from the direction of the most excellent glory, and crying with a loud voice to the other angels, and waving something up and down in his hand. I asked my attending angel for an explanation of what I saw. He told me that I could see no more then, but he would shortly show me what those things that I then saw meant. {LS 118.1}
Sabbath afternoon one of our number was sick, and requested prayers that he might be healed. We all united in applying to the Physician who never lost a case, and while healing power came down, and the sick was healed, the Spirit fell upon me, and I was taken off in vision. {LS 118.2}
I saw four angels who had a work to do on the earth, and were on their way to accomplish it. Jesus was clothed with priestly garments. He gazed in pity on the remnant, then raised His hands, and with a voice of deep pity cried, "My blood, Father, My blood! My blood! My blood!" Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from God, who sat upon the great white throne, and was shed all about Jesus. Then I saw an angel with a commission from Jesus, swiftly flying to the four angels who had a work to do in the earth, and waving something up and down in his hand, and crying with a loud voice, "Hold! hold! hold! hold! until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads." {LS 118.3}
I asked my accompanying angel the meaning of what I heard, and what the four angels were about to do. He said to me that it was God that restrained the powers, and that He gave His angels charge over things on the earth; that the four angels had power from God to hold the four winds, and that they were about to let them go; but while their hands were loosening, and the four winds were about to blow, the merciful eye of Jesus gazed on the remnant that were not sealed, and He raised His hands to the Father, and pleaded with Him that He had spilled His blood for them. Then another angel was commissioned to fly swiftly to the four angels, and bid them hold, until the servants of God were sealed with the seal of the living God in their foreheads. {LS 119.1} I don’t necessarily understand all the reasons why the sealing vision has this interlude but the parallel to the 1906 vision of falling buildings suggests to me that 9/11 could be the first phase of it; that the sealing is occurring now; that this is a special respite when the winds of strife are held in check. If that’s so, we should be closely examining ourselves. Also, we should expect a repetition of the destruction of 9/11 in the future but on a larger scale. As I was studying this I commented to my wife, ‘if I was Al Qaeda, my sights would be on the new world trade center'. And given al-Qaeda's history of simultaneous targeting, along with the Freedom Tower we should expect them to try to bring down as many of America’s skyscrapers at the same time as possible. Hahahaha I was just saying what your wife said to your last post before I read this, awesome. It is very cool that you recognized the repeating of the visions of the explosions and the holding of the 4 winds which is what I saw in my mind that day in 2001. I had not made that connection yet. I was prompted to look at all the quotes about holding the 4 winds which was what I saw in my vision that day. Do that study by searching on the White estate site and you will probably see things I haven't seen. This is what I crave, legitimate counsel on my vision connected with what God has shown our church already. I been daily shown that there are things associated with what God showed me that have not been revealed yet. He is showing us a path to see His warning to our church more clearly so we can make this message powerfully to the rest of our church, which needs to be warned since we need to be ready to warn the world. (on a personal note; I know that this is the true Spirit of Prophecy, God leads us to comprehension of what He has already inspired the prophets before to share and warn us with. Not the mumbo jumbo of men like Ernie Knolls who after his first dream got off on strange subjects not associated with the previously inspired writings of our faith even though he quoted the Spirit of prophecy over and over without any effective reasoning... mumbo jumbo.. The funny thing is, he became very popular over his Satanically inspired garbage and I on the other hand have been persecuted in our church to no end... Go figure.)
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#142331
05/12/12 09:54 PM
05/12/12 09:54 PM
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OP
Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
|
|
What makes Ellen White’s sealing vision especially timely and interesting is the context in which it was given. The editors of Life Sketches give the following background: [Following the return from western New York in September, 1848, Elder and Mrs. White journeyed to Maine, where they held a meeting with the believers, October 20-22. This was the Topsham Conference, where the brethren began praying that a way might be opened for publishing the truths connected with the advent message. A month later they were with "a small company of brethren and sisters," writes elder Joseph Bates in his pamphlet on "the sealing message," "assembled in meeting in Dorchester, near Boston, Mass." "Before the meeting commenced," he continues, "some of us were examining some of the points in the sealing message; some difference of opinion existed about the correctness of the view of the word 'ascending' [See Rev. 7:2], etc."
Elder James White, in an unpublished letter giving his account of this meeting, writes: "We all felt like uniting to ask wisdom from God on the points in dispute; also Brother Bates's duty in writing. We had an exceedingly powerful meeting. Ellen was again taken off in vision. She then began to describe the Sabbath light, which was the sealing truth. Said she: 'it arose from the rising of the sun. It arose back there in weakness, but light after light has shone upon it until the Sabbath truth is clear, weighty, and mighty. Like the sun when it first rises, its rays are cold, but as it comes up, its rays are warming and powerful; so the light and power has increased more and more until its rays are powerful, sanctifying the soul; but, unlike the sun, it will never set. The Sabbath light will be at its brightest when the saints are immortal; it will rise higher and higher until immortality comes.'
"She saw many interesting things about this glorious sealing Sabbath, which I have not time or space to record. She told brother Bates to write the things he had seen and heard, and the blessing of God would attend it."
It was after this vision that Mrs. White informed her husband of his duty to publish, and that as he should advance by faith, success would attend his efforts. (see page 125.)] The above context suggests that now and during of the next phase of the sealing our duty is to ‘proclaim the Sabbath more fully’. We should be bringing the importance of the Sabbath to the forefront now but during the latter rain the Sabbath will be demonstrated to be the sealing message on a global scale. It is in contrast to the mark of the beast, 666, a human institution, and the bases of a false global system of worship. I love homosexuals but their lifestyle is unscriptural. When the President takes a position that endorses and promotes this contrary to Scripture, when men think to change the times and laws of God, we know we’re living at the end. Like the rising of the sun, the message has advanced from the east to the west- the United States, then from the east coast to the west coast the message grew. Now the Spirit of Prophecy is all over the world from our Adventist Universities and missionaries. But they have not received the full understanding of these messages like we are here now, and our testimony will cause the world to take notice very, very soon. Be warned brother, this is going to rock our worlds by causing the shaking to increase. This same east to west pattern is so essential to understand why America plays such a prominent role in the last days. America is the Lamb Like beast, which was the animal used in the 'daily' service. We are just scratching the surface in this knowledge brother.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#142333
05/12/12 10:16 PM
05/12/12 10:16 PM
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OP
Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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My desire to serve the Lord came from Him, He shows me things that leads me closer to Him. The more I get to know Him the more He trusts me with this knowledge. When I get discouraged He does not fill my head with new things, but amplifies what He has already shown me to bring back to the point I was at. Then He gives me new insight on old prophecies and sends me people who encourage what our Lord has shown me so I become even more confident, which strengthens me for the future. Thank you Father for continuing to encourage my heart for your glory and for the men you encourage me through.
I think Mrs White needed these kinds of encouragements also. When the brethren got together and prayed for her to receive insight into their theological dilemma it had to be an awesome encouragement in faith.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#142342
05/13/12 03:09 AM
05/13/12 03:09 AM
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OP
Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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. Like the rising of the sun, the message has advanced from the east (Babylon from where Abraham had been called from) to the west (the United States) then conitinuin from the east coast to the west coast the message grew. Now the Spirit of Prophecy is all over the world from our Adventist Universities and missionaries. But they have not received the full understanding of these messages like we are beginning to here now, and our testimony will cause the world to take notice very, very soon. Be warned brother, this is going to rock our worlds by causing the shaking to increase.
This same east to west pattern is so essential to understand why America plays such a prominent role in the last days. America is the Lamb Like beast, which was the animal used in the 'daily' service. We are just scratching the surface in this knowledge brother. (Corrections included in the last quote I made earlier) Abraham was called out of Babylon and the message spread west until it settled in Jerusalem, from Jerusalem it continued west to Europe, then to the shores of America where it flourished. James White is descended from the child born on the Mayflower. When the great disappointment occurred the church prophesied to go through it, spread west from the east coast to California as it went to the world.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#143678
06/23/12 07:32 AM
06/23/12 07:32 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
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When I first heard the idea of 9/11 being prophetically significant (from Jeff Pippenger) I was skeptical because 1) it wasn't a good match in my view to the description in T9: The T9 description is much broader; and 2) I couldn't see a good connection between 9/11 and scriptural references to the judgment. If God had begun sealing/judging the church, shouldn't there be good scriptural links to the descriptions of sealing and judgment in for example Ezekiel 9-11, Revelation 4-6, 7, 8-11, Isaiah 6, Zechariah 2-5 etc?
But recently the problems I saw with T9 were resolved when I looked at 11MR 361 and compared it with T9 and EW 36. (See above). I still keep looking though for more scriptural support. Why would 9/11 be prophetically significant so that we can legitimately claim and know that the Lord is sealing/judging us now, since that time? You see one of the main 'problems' with that view is that it appears to contradict scriptural testimony that we're judged now according to the light we have. Ellen White and scripture agree that judgment begins with the house of God. In 1844 we came to a clear understanding of the sanctifying truths on the sanctuary and then the Sabbath and since then the Lord has been measuring us to see whether we will let these empowering truths have their way in our lives. So where is the connection between these and 9/11?
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Re: Answers; When the judgment of the living began.
[Re: Charity]
#143679
06/23/12 11:34 AM
06/23/12 11:34 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2020
4500+ Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
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As I’ve shared on the forum before, Adventists have in my view been in the measuring process/judgment since the truths of the Sabbath and sanctuary message were revealed. Where does 9/11 fit in? Here’s my take on it:
On 9/11 the battle between Islam and fallen Christendom was re-ignited; the 'War on Terror' began again. A small number of Protestant clergy recognized it for what it was – a judgment from God – but howls of protest were raised and their testimony has been silenced for the most part. What the faithful Protestant clergy didn’t see, as far as I know, is that 9/11 marked the rebirth in modern times of the same scourge that God used during the dark ages to judge and overthrown the dominance of the Papacy and hold it in check while the Reformation spread and began to take the gospel to the world. So, in my view 9/11 is especially significant because it marks the start of the judgment of the fallen churches.
And this is why I would beg those who are re-writing the church’s position on the central role of Islam in the past (Revelation 9) and claiming that the main impetus that gave power and credibility to the Advent movement was a mistake – the prediction of the exact timing of the fall of the Ottoman Empire – I would ask them to please pause to re-evaluate where this leads prophetically and theologically.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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