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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: kland]
#143413
06/15/12 06:23 PM
06/15/12 06:23 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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I am brought up with the understanding that the 24 elders were those who rose up with Christ and went with him to heaven. I see no reason why I should change that now, nor that it has any importance for my salvation. I fully agree with you, Johann. To my understanding, the 24 elders were representative of the "first fruits" of the earth and are comprised of those whom God has already taken to Heaven. I find this very disappointing. And surprised someone would actually admit it. I have found most of what I was brought up with regarding most anything is wrong. And what is disappointing is for someone to just accept what they've been told, that it must be right without questioning it. Something like, we have Abraham as our forefather, comes to mind... Or, I was born a Republican/Democrat/whatever and I'll die one. Or, My pappy believed this way and if it was good enough for him, it's good enough for me. Whatever happened to the idea of being able to support what you believe, being able to give a reason for what you believe, rather than, "Well, I've always been told..." Well, but at least one has to find something that seems better before discarding what one has. I do not believe in changing opinions just because of the novelty.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: Johann]
#143421
06/16/12 01:41 AM
06/16/12 01:41 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Johann, who is our high priest in heaven? It is Jesus correct?
Did He serve as High Priest before He came to earth? No He didn't.
The position of High Priest is the connection between The Father and us. So this position must have been filled by someone before Adam fell correct? Because Adam had access and had not fallen is the proof that this is what is required to enter, or even for our prayers to reach the ears of the Father, who is solely responsible for every answer to prayer. Even Jesus prays to HIM.
Why was Jesus called the second Adam? Because Adam filled the position of High Priest for our world until he fell and Satan took over this planet as lord of this world. It was not Satan's intention to fill the position but to destroy the connection. Jesus came to restore the connection.
Just as every family has a father as priest, even so every one of the created worlds has a High Priest.
Jesus holds the Golden Censor through which our prayers ascend to God for our world now. But who holds the golden censor for the other worlds? The 24 elders hold the golden censors for their worlds. Rev 5:8 "the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."
If the unfallen worlds are just that, unfallen, then there would be a lot more prayers from their behalf, and they pray for us. We are on stage for them to judge the glory of the Lord through us. Our lives reveal the glory of the Lord to them. They can see Him through His children so it become self evident from an unfallen perspective.
How else could it be?
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#143426
06/16/12 04:19 AM
06/16/12 04:19 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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The creator God Elohim, loved us so much, He let His only begotten Son Jesus come fill the position that Adam, the created son, left at his fall. But in the re-creation, Jesus brings even more grace to the created because He is part of the race. He is the promised seed.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#143427
06/16/12 04:47 AM
06/16/12 04:47 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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Jesus; the seed that was cast through the eastern Gate of the Heavenly Jerusalem, from Eden. The promised seed from Paradise to replenish the earth.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#143428
06/16/12 05:07 AM
06/16/12 05:07 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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One more point, the reason the ceremonial system was necessary before Jesus came was exactly because of this point. Jesus had not yet come to begin his trial as a man. He had not yet ascended as a perfect example of us, having given His life a ransom, not yet. So the system of example must be implemented to prophesy, exemplify, and enunciate the intent of the mission of Christ to be able to bring the minds of men to the temple! To see the propitiation for sins is essential to true repentance, every aspect of the ceremonial system has import to the true worship of Christ.
Ask yourself, "where in my devotion do I place my hands on the head to confess my sins?" In the ceremonial system you brought your sacrifice to the 'eastern' vale or gate of the inner court, of which the high priest was the holder of the key. Where in my meditation do I go for this?
You would bring the sacrifice to the hands of the officiating priest and he would lay your hands on its head, and you would confess before God what you had done, then he would hand you the knife, and you would cut the throat. How many see each sin in this light? Then the work would be out of your hands but your heart must follow the sacrifice to the Brazen or Miphkad altar, depending on the Sacrifice, the blood being sprinkled at various places for each sacrifice also. Then at Atonement your heart should remember the forgiveness you received at the expense of the sacrifices offered, to see the Atonement.
Since we are in the last days of the Atonement before the close of probation, this should be a very important part of our devotional mindset.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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Re: The 24 Elders
[Re: jamesonofthunder]
#143429
06/16/12 05:53 AM
06/16/12 05:53 AM
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Banned SDA Active Member 2015
3500+ Member
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
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If the unfallen worlds are just that, unfallen, then there would be a lot more prayers from their behalf, and they pray for us. We are on stage for them to judge the glory of the Lord through us. Our lives reveal the glory of the Lord to them. They can see Him through His children so it become self evident from an unfallen perspective.
1 Peter 1:10 "Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours, searched and inquired carefully, 11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. 12 It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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