Rosangela, where does it say Satan cannot, or does, not tempt infants or babies?

The fact Jesus did not have an evil propensity is also true of born again believers. “We need not retain one sinful propensity.” (7BC 943) What can we infer from this insight regarding the human nature of Jesus?

I agree with you that we begin developing character even before we are born, and that by the time we are born character development is well under way. We are not static beings. From the moment of consciousness, which begins in the womb, we continually develop character.

I also agree with you that Jesus was not incarnated with a carnal mind. Unlike us, Jesus was conceived and born like a born again believer. Consequently, He never was under the dominion of sin, self, and Satan. No one, however, is conceived with a carnal mind. It is something that is developed as we react and respond to the myriad of influences that affect us from the moment of consciousness.

But I also agree with Tom that Jesus inherited the same sinful flesh nature that born again believers possess, which is the same as they had at conception and birth. This nature has a mind and voice of its own, which continually tempts us to meet our legitimate needs (i.e., appetites and passions) in a sinful way. Jesus, unlike us, never acted them out. He never cherished them in thought, and never acted them out in word or deed.

Mike,

Either we are born with a spiritual mind or with a carnal mind. If we are born with a disinclination to truth and virtue, that is, with a disinclination to obey the law of God, it seems obvious to me that we are born with a carnal mind.

What does Ellen white mean by passions?

1- Appetites, bodily passions, not evil in themselves, but which become evil if not continually subject to the control of reason:

“The will, the appetites and passions, will clamour for indulgence, but God has implanted within you desires for high and holy purposes, and it is not necessary that these should be debased. This is only so when we refuse to submit to the control of reason and conscience. We are to restrain our passions and deny self.” {19MR 327.1}

Christ had these and Satan used them to tempt Him:

“Of all the lessons to be learned from our Lord's first great temptation, none is more important than that bearing upon the control of the appetites and passions. In all ages, temptations appealing to the physical nature have been most effectual in corrupting and degrading mankind. ... His example declares that our only hope of eternal life is through bringing the appetites and passions into subjection to the will of God.” {TSDF 154.1}

These remain forever with the human being and must be restrained during his whole life.

2- Passions with which all of us are endowed, which are not evil in themselves, but can become evil, like anger and ambition. There is unselfish/holy anger and ambition, and selfish/unholy anger and ambition:

“It is true there is an indignation that is justifiable, even in the followers of Christ. When they see that God is dishonored and His service brought into disrepute, when they see the innocent oppressed, a righteous indignation stirs the soul. Such anger, born of sensitive morals, is not a sin.”--DA 310

“The holy ambition that He [Chirst] revealed in His life they are to cherish--an ambition to make the world better for their having lived in it.” {CC 371.5}

Christ also had these and Satan used them to tempt Him:

“Satan sought to tempt Christ not only to indulge the grosser passions and to yield to appetite, but he appealed to His ambition. Notwithstanding the enemy's determined efforts, Christ did not manifest a grasping spirit to gain possession of the kingdoms of this world. He did not worship Satan to gain worldly wealth.” {18MR 113.3}

“Christ [in the desert] knew that Satan was a liar from the beginning, and it required strong self-control to listen to the propositions of this insulting deceiver and not instantly rebuke his bold assumptions.” {Con 44.3}

“None of the people, not even the disciples, understood the nature of Christ's kingdom. O, how his patience must have been taxed by the low estimate placed by men upon his mission and character!” {ST, July 1, 1897 par. 6}

These also remain forever in the human being and must also be continually under the control of a sanctified reason during the whole life.

3- What is definitely called evil passions (also called sinful inclinations/propensities/traits of character):

“They cherish pride, envy, and hatred, and contention springs from these evil passions.” {BEcho, March 19, 1894 par. 2}

“Ambition, covetousness, vanity, inordinate affection, malice, revenge, and envy, carry with them a weight of woe. The exercise of evil passions sows a harvest after their kind that will bring no pleasure to reap.” {ST, February 24, 1890 par. 2}

These may be inherited or cultivated. We know that Christ did not cultivate any evil passion/propensity, but did He inherit them?

The problem involved here is that to every sinful passion/propensity corresponds a propensity to virtue that you lack. For instance, you cannot have at the same time a propensity to impatience and a propensity to patience, can you? a propensity to lasciviousness and a propensity to purity; a propensity to unholy temper and a propensity to meekness; a propensity to dishonesty and a propensity to honesty; a propensity to doubt and a propensity to faith; a propensity to self-sufficiency and a propensity to dependence on God; a propensity to selfishness and a propensity to unselfishness; a propensity to pride and a propensity to humility; a propensity to self-indulgence and a propensity to self-denial and self-control; and the list goes. If you are born with one you are not born with the other.

The idea being proposed here is that in His humanity Christ had a propensity, for instance, to self-indulgence, while in His divinity He had a propensity to self-denial; that in His humanity He had a propensity to unholy temper while in His divinity He had a propensity to meekness; that in His humanity He had a propensity to selfishness while in His humanity He had a propensity to unselfishness; and so on. I cannot accept this idea because it constitutes a spiritual aberration.

“Those who are indeed adopted into the family of God are transformed by His Spirit. Self-indulgence and love for self is changed for self-denial and supreme love for God.” {ST, June 14, 1905 par. 6}

Both cannot subsist together. It’s either one or the other. And nobody can be perfect in character until he has all the virtues of God and all sinful tendencies are cut away from the character.

Another thing to be considered is that it is being proposed that Christ had something evil in Himself, for evil passions or propensities are just that - evil, and originated with Satan.

“Many who claim to be children of God are children of the wicked one, and have all his passions, ... his unlovely traits of character." {SW 13.2}

These passions/propensities/traits of character are un-Christlike:

“But many have inherited traits of character that in no way represent the divine Model.” {5T 418.1}

“For they [many] have an inheritance of unchristlike traits of character that are strong by heredity, and stronger by cultivation. The least crossing of their will arouses their combativeness and upsets their temper” {ST, September 12, 1892 par. 3}

Saying that Christ had un-Christlike things in Him is an absurd oxymoron.

Two more things should be noted:

1- Although someone may not have a propensity for a sin, he still can be tempted to commit that sin. Thus, Adam and Eve had no propensity to doubt, covetousness, intemperance or selfishness, yet they fell in all these sins.

2- The temptations of Christ go beyong ours:

“Satan thought that by his temptations he could delude the world's Redeemer, to make one bold move in manifesting his divine power, to create a sensation, and to surprise all by the wonderful display of the power of his Father in preserving him from injury. ... He had received honor in the heavenly courts, and was familiar with absolute power. It was as difficult for him to keep the level of humanity as it is for men to rise above the low level of their depraved natures, and be partakers of the divine nature. Christ was put to the closest test, requiring the strength of all his faculties to resist the inclination when in danger, to use his power to deliver himself from peril, and triumph over the power of the prince of darkness. Satan showed his knowledge of the weak points of the human heart, and put forth his utmost power to take advantage of the weakness of the humanity which Christ had assumed in order to overcome his temptations on man's account.” {RH, April 1, 1875}

As all human beings, Christ didn't want to suffer and didn't want to die, and Satan tempted Him to use His power, for He had the power to command stones to become bread, to come down from the cross and go back to heaven, to fulminate His opposers, and to operate miracles to deliver Himself from peril.

I agree with you. We are born with a carnal mind. We are also born with a sinful nature and its sinful propensities, which we naturally, instinctively cultivate as sinful character.

But Jesus was born born again, and the fact He did not have an evil propensity is also true of born again believers. “We need not retain one sinful propensity.” (7BC 943)

What can we infer from this insight regarding the human nature of Jesus?

That's just it, Rosangela, I haven't found where the Bible or the SOP teaches that we gradually outgrow, after we are born again, our inherited or cultivated evil propensities. The human nature of Jesus is evidence that we are born again without our old man sinful character. His experience teaches us that born-again believers keep their appetites and passions under the control of a sanctified mind and will.

“We need not retain one evil propensity” means not cherishing sin in our heart, or not acting it out in word or deed. Our sinful flesh nature will, even after we crucify our old man habits of sin, continue to generate and communicate unholy thoughts and feelings, which we must recognize and resist as the mind and voice of Satan.

We will never totally silence the mind and voice of our sinful flesh nature. It will continue to harass us with the unholy thoughts and feelings, which, at least initially, are nothing more than temptations. Sinful nature will continue to bombard us in one way or another until the day Jesus returns and replaces it with a sinless nature, like the one Adam and Eve possessed on the day they were created.

In the meantime, like Jesus, we must consciously choose every moment of every day to stay connected to the Source of all power, to continue walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, to continue partaking of the divine nature. So long as we do these things we will “never fall”, we “cannot sin”, we will not “ fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 3:9, and Galatians 5:16) Which is exactly what Jesus did, and He is our perfect example.

Rosangela:
1) Did you read Paulsen's article which John H. posted? Did you agree with it?
2) Ellen White distuishes between cultivated and inherited tendencies to evil. Christ had the latter, but not the former, as He accepted the working of the great law of heredity, the result of which is seen in Christ's ancerstors. In writing: "What is definitely called evil passions (also called sinful inclinations/propensities/traits of character):" you are making the assumption that EGW uses these terms completely synonomously, but you have not established this point. In fact, it is clear that she does not use these terms synonomously because some of these terms she applies to Christ, and some she doesn't.
3)"Saying that Christ had un-Christlike things in Him is an absurd oxymoron." What do you think this is:

quote:

---

5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

---

4)The following points are not relevant:

quote:

---

1- Although someone may not have a propensity for a sin, he still can be tempted to commit that sin. Thus, Adam and Eve had no propensity to doubt, covetousness, intemperance or selfishness, yet they fell in all these sins.

2- The temptations of Christ go beyong ours:

---

The relevant point is that Christ was in all points tempted as we are, not tempted beyond or in some other way. An earlier quote I provided stated that the difficulties of the Christian are temptations from within, and that Christ understood these difficulties.

Christ was tempted as we are. This is an important point for us to understand. Not for some academic reason, but for the very pracitical one that we may go to Him in time of need, understanding that He knows by personal experience what we are going through when we are tempted, and He knows how to comfort us. This is the very argument Paul makes in Heb. 4 and 5.

Tom,

1) In his article Paulson does not distinguish between natural passions and sinful passions, which is fundamental to a correct understanding of the subject. Natural passions will remain with us our whole life and must be controlled by reason, while sinful passions must definitely be cut away from the character.

2)

quote:

---

you are making the assumption that EGW uses these terms completely synonomously, but you have not established this point.

---

“There [at the wide gate] depraved appetite and natural inclinations find abundant room. There may be seen self-indulgence, pride, envy, evil surmisings, love of money, self-exaltation.” {TMK 304.2}

“Self-indulgence, self-pleasing, pride, and extravagance must be renounced. We cannot be Christians and gratify these propensities.” {RH, May 16, 1893 par. 3}

“The ill-balanced mind, the hasty temper, the fretfulness, envy, or jealousy, bear witness to parental neglect. These evil traits of character bring great unhappiness to their possessors.” {CG 207.1}

“They cherish pride, envy, and hatred, and contention springs from these evil passions.” {BEcho, March 19, 1894 par. 2}

quote:

---

In fact, it is clear that she does not use these terms synonomously because some of these terms she applies to Christ, and some she doesn't.

---

The terms are synonyms, as shown above, however passions/propensities/inclinations/traits of character may be good or bad, so any of these terms could be applied to Christ; this doesn’t mean she must have applied all of them. I’ve not made a careful analysis, but it seems that passions/inclinations are applied to both physical and moral aspects of man, while propensities/traits are applied just to the moral aspects.

3- Christ was made to be sin for us in terms of imputation. There was no intrinsic sin in Christ. Now, it’s difficult to prove that Satan’s passions/propensities/inclinations/traits of character are not sin.

“Envy is one of the most despicable traits of Satanic character.” {ST, August 17, 1888 par. 6}

“Many who claim to be children of God are children of the wicked one, and have all his passions, ... his unlovely traits of character." {SW 13.2}

"Liquor-drinking encourages the vilest debauchery and strengthens the most satanic propensities. {BTS, July 1, 1902 par. 4}

quote:

---

The relevant point is that Christ was in all points tempted as we are, not tempted beyond or in some other way. An earlier quote I provided stated that the difficulties of the Christian are temptations from within, and that Christ understood these difficulties.

---

I’m not sure if by temptations from within you mean something which is intrinsic to us (in this case temptations which involve the body are temptations from within). If, however, by temptations from within you mean what Ellen White says here, then Christ was not tempted from within:

"We must strive daily against outward evil and inward sin, if we would reach the perfection of Christian character". {RH, May 30, 1882 par. 1}

"One may for many years have enjoyed a genuine Christian experience, but he is still exposed to Satan's attacks. In the battle with inward sin and outward temptation, even the wise and powerful Solomon was vanquished." {PK 82.2}

The essence of temptation is always the same, although we are tempted on different points. I will never be tempted on the point of homosexuality, however, I may feel the strength of temptations as much as a homossexual does. Anyway, on tempting Christ on the point of the use of His power, Satan was tempting Him from within, and Christ felt the power of temptation as we feel it:

“He had received honor in the heavenly courts and was familiar with absolute power. It was as difficult for Him to keep the level of humanity as for men to rise above the low level of their depraved natures and be partakers of the divine nature.” {Con 85.1}

Rosangela, notice how in this quote Sister White compares born again believers to Jesus Christ. There is no difference between them. We begin at rebirth where Jesus began at birth, that is, with a clean slate. We become like Jesus after we are born again.

We resist the same temptations He had to resist. Of course, I'm referring to His humanity. We do not become divine after we are born again. So, whatever Sister White wrote about Jesus is also true of born again believer, that is, so long as they are partaking of the divine nature.

In the same way Jesus grew and developed, both morally and intellectually, so too born again believers will grow and develop, becoming more and more mature as Christians. We do not gradually swap sin for righteousness, or gradually become more and more holy by becoming less and less unholy. That's not how it worked for Jesus, and that's not how it works for us.

quote:

---

The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity, and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. {FLB 23.2}

"The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in me." John 14:30. There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. {FLB 23.3}

We need not retain one sinful propensity. . . . As we partake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good. Ever learning of the divine Teacher, daily partaking of His nature, we cooperate with God in overcoming Satan's temptations. {FLB 23.4}

How this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the Word of God. Only by the Word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. . . ." Every promise in God's Word is ours. . . . When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the Word. All its strength is yours. {FLB 23.5}

Grasp His promises as leaves from the tree of life: "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. As you come to Him, believe that He accepts you, because He has promised. You can never perish while you do this--never. {FLB 23.6}

---

Here's another interesting way Sister White uses the words propensity, human nature, and divine nature:

quote:

---

Upward Look, page 315

No longer let any evil influence or propensity, natural or acquired, lead you to subordinate the claims of future, eternal interests to the common affairs of this life. No man can serve two masters whose interests are not in harmony. 'Ye cannot serve God and mammon.'". . . {UL 313.5}

Christ thought it not robbery to be equal with God, and yet He pleased not Himself. He took upon Himself human nature for no other purpose than to place man on vantage ground before the world and the whole heavenly universe. He carries sanctified humanity to heaven, there always to retain humanity as it would have been if man had never violated God's law. The overcomers, who upon the earth were partakers of the divine nature, He makes kings and priests unto God. {UL 313.6}

---

What is the difference between natural and acquired propensitites? My guess is it's merely another way of differentiating between hereditary (natural) and cultivated (acquired) traits of character. What do you guys think?

EDIT: I'm adding these quotes to this post:

quote:

---

His life is inconsistent; professedly a Christian, in practice he is yielding to unnatural, sinful propensities that war against the purification and elevation necessary for spiritual superiority. {Te 68.3}

Good works . . . bring us into conflict with natural feelings and propensities, and in fulfilling them we gain victory after victory over the objectionable traits of our characters. {HP 324.6}

While the power of the truth, in all its force, influenced him, he was comparatively safe; but break the force and power of truth upon the mind, and there is no restraint, the natural propensities take the lead, and there is no stopping place. {1T 427.1}

“Said the angel: ‘Sacrifice all for God. Self must die. The natural desires and propensities of the unrenewed heart must be subdued.’” (1T 507)

“The greatest triumph given us by the religion of Christ is control over ourselves. Our natural propensities must be controlled, or we can never overcome as Christ overcame.” (4T 235)

---

What is the diffrence between natural and unnatural propensities?

[ August 06, 2005, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Mountain Man ]