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Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Rosangela] #145324
09/20/12 03:15 AM
09/20/12 03:15 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
So you have nothing else to say according to the quotes I used? Do you not respect the Spirit of Prophecy quotes that prove you are wrong?

Your response says volumes about who you are!



Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Rosangela] #145326
09/20/12 04:03 AM
09/20/12 04:03 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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"To the penitent thief came the perfect peace of acceptance with God." {DA 751.2}

This next quote fits perfectly with what God showed me in the vision He gave me of meeting Jesus in the Garden... (http://redheifersbloodysweat.blogspot.com/2011/12/red-heifer.html)

"The religion of Christ means more than the forgiveness of sin; it means taking away our sins, and filling the vacuum with the graces of the Holy Spirit. It means divine illumination, rejoicing in God. It means a heart emptied of self, and blessed with the abiding presence of Christ. When Christ reigns in the soul, there is purity, freedom from sin. The glory, the fullness, the completeness of the gospel plan is fulfilled in the life. The acceptance of the Saviour brings a glow of perfect peace, perfect love, perfect assurance. The beauty and fragrance of the character of Christ revealed in the life testifies that God has indeed sent His Son into the world to be its Saviour. {COL 419.6}
Christ does not bid His followers strive to shine. He says, Let your light shine. If you have received the grace of God, the light is in you. Remove the obstructions, and the Lord’s glory will be revealed. The light will shine forth to penetrate and dispel the darkness. You cannot help shining within the range of your influence. {COL 420.1}

When you receive this level of assurance and peace in Christ you would have no argument.

You literally have to shut the connection with Christ off to accomplish anything in the realm sin. This is the old man warring against the Spirit. If you just relax and let your light shine you don't have to step out of the protection of the Father ever again.

"What is the “rest” promised? It is the consciousness that God is true, that He never disappoints the one who comes to Him. His pardon is full and free, and His acceptance means rest to the soul, rest in His love.—The Review and Herald, April 25, 1899. (HC 97.) {2MCP 803.1}

"Rest is found when all self-justification, all reasoning from a selfish standpoint, is put away. Entire self-surrender, an acceptance of His ways, is the secret of perfect rest in His love.... Do just what He has told you to do and be assured that God will do all that He has said He would do.... Have you come to Him, renouncing all your makeshifts, all your unbelief, all your self-righteousness? Come just as you are, weak, helpless, and ready to die.—The Review and Herald, April 25, 1899. (HC 97.) {2MCP 803.2


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Rosangela] #145328
09/20/12 04:24 AM
09/20/12 04:24 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,613
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Brother JSOT,

I've been discussing with MM for 8 years, so I'm sure my comment addresses his arguments. His interpretation of 1 John 3:6, 9 differs from mine.


From the Bible Commentary about 1 John chapter 3...

"Power to Keep Us from Temptation—“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He (Jesus) is pure.” {7BC 950.9}
Does this text mean that the human agent can remove one stain of sin from his soul? No. Then what does it mean to purify himself? It means to look upon the Lord’s great moral standard of righteousness, the holy law of God, and see that he is a sinner in the light of that law. “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.” {7BC 950.10}
It is through faith in Jesus Christ that the truth is accepted in the heart, and the human agent is purified and cleansed.... He has an abiding principle in the soul, that enables him to overcome temptation. “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.” God has power to keep the soul that is in Christ who is under temptation.... {7BC 951.1}
A mere profession of godliness is worthless. It is he that abideth in Christ that is a Christian.... Unless the mind of God becomes the mind of men, every effort to purify himself will be useless; for it is impossible to elevate man except through a knowledge of God. The outward gloss may be put on, and men may be as were the Pharisees whom Jesus describes as “whited sepulchres” full of corruption and dead men’s bones. But all the deformity of the soul is open to Him who judgeth righteously, and unless the truth is planted in the heart, it cannot control the life. Cleansing the outside of the cup will never make the vessel pure within. A nominal acceptance of truth is good as far as it goes, and the ability to give a reason for our faith is a good accomplishment, but if the truth does not go deeper than this, the soul will never be saved. The heart must be purified from all moral defilement (Letter 13, 1893). {7BC 951.2}

In other words sister, it is impossible to sin if we are abiding in Him, when we do sin we step out of His protection.

If the penitent thief could reach this level of acceptance with God on his first day of conversion what makes you say this is not a constant?

I would argue that very few people allow God to touch them as deeply as the truth touched the penitent thief and because of their halfheartedness they are not truly converted even if they accept baptism.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145329
09/20/12 04:29 AM
09/20/12 04:29 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Active Member 2015

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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
So in essence, we are only limited by our faith in Jesus.

If we receive the faith that He will keep us from sin, HE WILL.

If we don't have that level of faith, we are just spinning our wheels, and if we teach others that this is a condition that is acceptable by God and still considered service to Him, do you know what you get? Look at most of our churches and you will see the results.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145330
09/20/12 04:58 AM
09/20/12 04:58 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Watch all the halfhearted fill out their "Spiritual Gifts survey's" convincing themselves that where they perceive their own strength is where God can use them.

But my God impresses me that "when I am WEAK I am strong in Him".

Halfhearted men are also governing our churches in most cases and they think it is good to fill the church full of other halfhearted men that try to convince themselves they are saved while shutting out those who truly are filled with the Faith OF Jesus. Too much to bear they say.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145331
09/20/12 05:59 AM
09/20/12 05:59 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
“Have you followed him in the garden of Gethsemane? Have you seen the bloody sweat bedew the ground?” {RH July 12, 1892, par. 6}

This is where our sins are taken away and the vacuum is filled with the Holy Spirit. If we sin, let the Spirit cause you to repent and lead you back to the Garden to place your sins on His head. Just like the ceremonial law where they would come through the eastern Gate and place their sins upon the head of the sacrifice for sin.

This is the propitiation and it leaves us clean. Our sins are taken away here, not covered over or put in escrow. TAKEN AWAY!!!


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145332
09/20/12 02:00 PM
09/20/12 02:00 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Have you understood what I wrote? Please read it again:

Quote:
I believe in total victory over sin - not, however, as an instantaneous result of the new birth.


Total victory over sin IS NOT an instantaneous result of the new birth. If it were, nobody would ever have sinned after being born again. Have you never sinned after having been born again? That was not my experience - nor Paul's, nor Peter's, nor John's, nor Ellen White's. All of us have sinned after the new birth. The EGW quote I posted says that "We shall fail often in our efforts to copy the divine Pattern." Total victory over sin (which is what the 144,000 will have) is a fruit of growth and maturity in the Christian life.

In case you have a different opinion, we shall agree to disagree.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Rosangela] #145333
09/20/12 02:09 PM
09/20/12 02:09 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
As to MM, what he calls not sinning, IS NOT not sinning. He says he does not sin (because everybody who was born again does not sin), yet he occasionally sins, as everybody else.

This is Robertson's commentary on 1 John 5:18:

Quote:
Sinneth not (ouch hamartanei). Lineal present active indicative, “does not keep on sinning,” as he has already shown in 1Jo_3:4-10.

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: jamesonofthunder] #145334
09/20/12 02:18 PM
09/20/12 02:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
In other words sister, it is impossible to sin if we are abiding in Him

But abiding in Him is something you learn, it's a progressive experience, and not something instantaneous you acquire at the new birth.

Let them give themselves, body, soul, and spirit, to God, to be used by Him in saving souls. They are not at liberty to do with themselves as they please; they belong to God, for He has bought them with the lifeblood of His only-begotten Son. And as they learn to abide in Christ, there will remain in the heart no room for selfishness. In His service they will find the fullest satisfaction. {CT 522.2}

Re: "How to attain Christian perfection" [Re: Rosangela] #145336
09/20/12 02:27 PM
09/20/12 02:27 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
And this is what the SDABC says about 1 John 3:6:

Quote:
Sinneth not. Or, “does not continue to sin,” or “does not habitually sin,” as the form of the Greek verb implies. The apostle is here speaking of habitual sin, not of occasional mistakes which every Christian is prone to make (see on ch. 2:1). John knows that Christians are inveigled into sin (ch. 1:8, 10), but he also knows the remedy for such failures (chs. 1:9; 2:1). Here he is speaking of the ideal state that is attainable by one who habitually abides in the protecting presence of the sinless Saviour.



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