Mr Saptenno,

This is a very important subject, and I want to be perfectly clear to you what you are doing...

You are accusing Paul of committing a sin, yet you have not produced what that sin is. This is contemptible in the heavenly court.

If you are correct, supply the evidence, if you are wrong, you are bearing false witness against an apostle.

Weigh your words carefully.

To my knowledge Paul was even the one to correct Peter for being two faced in front of other Jews and new converts of the Gentile origin. So Paul's clarity in truth was sharper, and when Peter realized his error, he supported what Paul said and repented for spearheading a revolt against the truth.

In the quote you use against Paul, when he said in 1 Timothy 1:15(ESV) "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost" he was talking about his past. He was thanking Jesus in praise for saving him from himself. Giving him a new life, a new beginning.

This is the gist of the message in Steps to Christ where she even makes the claim that when temptations attack us all we need is to say the important name "Jesus".

There is no magic in the word itself, but calling His name is a call, a prayer, that He will abide in us.

Brother Johann,

it is not clear your intention of the quote but,

I love that quote from Phil 3

12 "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."

This does not say Paul is sinning, it is not a confession of repentance, but says he does not consider himself perfected yet. In fact this quote points to the fact that Paul has not fallen in the race because he is still pressing on in the faith of Jesus. Coming from such a humbled man this is as much proof as any that he has not sinned since his conversion.

The Spirit of Prophecy says that a humble man would never say he is "saved" or "perfected " yet, not until the race is won when Jesus comes back to get us.

In fact at the end of his ministry Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:7 (ESV) "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

Here is another point, Paul had millions of people watching him. He had kings witnessing his every move.

His faith was so strong, not one person convicted him of sin after his awesome conversion. He always acknowledged God's providence in saving him from himself. This is not an easy thing to accomplish.

When he stood before kings he was not accused of anything that could stick, just like Jesus. But he was open in how his role in what the Jews were doing to Christ through His followers was the epitome of evil, openly calling the plots from hell.

He sang songs of praise to God while they tried to boil him in oil and he walked out of the scalding hot oil alive!

He was flogged over and over and not once did he sin in all of it, by submission to the will of the Father he was from sin.

Now do you think this would be possible with a man who was getting some on the side?

Even Paul would not say he had reached perfection though, as he was constantly having to struggle against the sin that seem to pull and tear at him.

Paul once believe he was perfect righteous and blameless against the law. ............"as to the righteousness before the law, blameless" (Phil. 3:6). This is said when he was a Pharisee named Saul.

After his conversion, he find out so many sins in him, which he came to know from the commandment "Do not covet". He thought he understood the law well as a Pharisee and thus stand perfect before the Law, but he admitted "I live apart from the law once".

After his conversion he JUST knew what sin is, and he found out that the law bring not life to him but death, because sin revive in him after his conversion and because of his sins he died. No wonder he admitted, as an apostle of God, "I am the chief of sinners." For sure he might feel so.

Romans 7.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid! Nay, I would not have known sin, but through the law; for I would not have known lust, except that the law had said, “Thou shalt not covet.”
8 But sin, taking occasion through the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence; for without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
10 and the commandment, which was ordained to bring life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me and by it slew me.

Pauline epistle is all what grace could say for sinners saved by grace, a progressive walk with the Spirit to overcome sin.

You're absolutely right Brother. I mentioned that same thing in post number 146124 a couple of posts ago.

Quote;

"This does not say Paul is sinning, it is not a confession of repentance, but says he does not consider himself perfected yet. In fact this quote points to the fact that Paul has not fallen in the race because he is still pressing on in the faith of Jesus. Coming from such a humbled man this is as much proof as any that he has not sinned since his conversion.

The Spirit of Prophecy says that a humble man would never say he is "saved" or "perfected " yet, not until the race is won when Jesus comes back to get us.

In fact at the end of his ministry Paul said in 2 Timothy 4:7 (ESV) "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

Peace.

You still have not given evidence that you claim that Paul was sinning after conversion.

The way you use Romans 7 is questionable beyond belief.

"Paul’s Marvelous Change —Paul says that “as touching the law”—as far as outward acts were concerned—he was “blameless”, but when the spiritual character of the law was discerned, when he looked into the holy mirror, he saw himself a sinner. Judged by a human standard, he had abstained from sin, but when he looked into the depths of God’s law, and saw himself as God saw him, he bowed in humiliation, and confessed his guilt. He did not go away from the mirror and forget what manner of man he was, but he exercised genuine repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. He was washed, he was cleansed. He says, “I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” {6BC 1076.5}
Sin then appeared in its true hideousness, and his self-esteem was gone. He became humble. He no longer ascribed goodness and merit to himself. He ceased to think more highly of himself than he ought, and he ascribed all the glory to God. He was no longer ambitious for greatness. He ceased to want to avenge himself, and was no longer sensitive to reproach, neglect, or contempt. He no longer sought earthly alliance, station, or honor. He did not pull others down to uplift himself. He became gentle, condescending, meek and lowly of heart, because he had learned his lesson in the school of Christ. He talked of Jesus and His matchless love, and grew more and more into His image. He bent his whole energy to win souls to Christ. When trial came upon him because of his unselfish labor for souls, he bowed in prayer, and his love for them increased. His life was hid with Christ in God, and he loved Jesus with all the ardor of his nature. Every church was dear to him; every church member was a person of interest to him; for he looked upon every soul as the purchase of the blood of Christ (The Review and Herald, July 22, 1890). {6BC 1076.6}

Pauls was a true conversion. What he meant in Romans 7 is that he thought he was righteous until he met Jesus, then he could see where he was wrong and he repented. This is how sin was revived not that he started to sin, but the remembrance of his past sins caused him to repent in sincerity of heart.