"My friend" you are also saying Paul was sinning?

Romans 8 (ASV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

From the moment Paul was knocked off his high-horse, he repented and dwelt IN CHRIST as a perfect representative for what may be accomplished IN CHRIST!

"Thus the Lord had given Paul his commission to enter the broad missionary field of the Gentile world. To prepare him for this extensive and difficult work, God had brought him into close connection with Himself and had opened before his enraptured vision views of the beauty and glory of heaven. To him had been given the ministry of making known “the mystery” which had been “kept secret since the world began” (Romans 16:25),—“the mystery of His will” (Ephesians 1:9), “which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel: whereof,” declares Paul, “I was made a minister.... Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: to the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Ephesians 3:5-11. {AA 159.2}

Do you think this is possible to be accomplished by someone who is not as convicted and as repentant as Enoch or Elijah? God would not permit Paul into His heavenly counsel unless he was fully convicted and made perfectly clean by the blood of the lamb.

Good point. Not sinning is not perfection. Just because Jesus empowers us to cease sinning it does not mean we have reached perfection. In fact, eternity is not long enough for us to exhaust our ability to "perfect holiness". Thank you, Jesus.

Paul did not consider himself perfected, because the person he was emulating was so much more perfect. Jesus continually grew in perfection through resistance to evil, and Paul considered himself insignificant comparably, but before the Father Paul was seen through the Character and record of the merits in Christ. Christs righteousness mixed with his prayers and people came back from the dead!

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

This verse covers a wide range of sinning area without we realize about it.

If Johan is a retired pastor, MM is an active pastor, why not comment on his writing?

2. "I knew that Paul’s life is not of a sinless perfect life since the day of his newborn." Only Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life from birth to death. People live without sinning only while they are abiding in Jesus.

He clearly agree with me that is against you.

Scripture makes it clear that our Lord Jesus Christ is the only person who has ever lived on this planet who never sinned. Therefore we are all sinners, with no exception, and Isa 59 makes it clear that our iniquities separate us from God. Through this separation we are not connected with the only source of immortality, and that is the reason why all sinners die.

God has made provision for a sinner to be re-connected to the source of immortality through Jesus Christ, and this connection makes the sinner a redeemed sinner. The moment this connection is broken the sinner is again a lost sinner. This is why a sinner has to make a full commitment to Jesus Christ which is so strong that it will last through all eternity.

When Paul moves from Romans 7 to 8 he is describing what happens to him as he accepts Jesus Christ, and how joyful he, a sinner, is what his sins are no longer counted against him. His connection with the source of immortality has been established through Jesus Christ.

Although he is still a sinner, he has received forgiveness and the grace which gives him the strength, also through the Holy Spirit, not to live in sin but to live in Jesus Christ.

Jesus makes it clear that He only came to save sinners. I hope you are one of them?

CHAPTER
9
The Man of Romans Seven


People who experience the miracle of rebirth or conversion are very excited about being like Jesus. Being kind and loving and patient is so awesome, so satisfying. Knowing that it pleases God, ah, there’s nothing like it – a piece of paradise. Thank you, Jesus! And then an unholy thought and feeling crashes the party. Yuk! Where did that come from? Bummer! I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. Living in a world and flesh full of sin stinks. Can’t wait for heaven, eh!

In the book of Romans Paul reveals, in his unique, original way, that he is very much like us. He records a graphic, first-person account of the battle that wages within all of us. As every faithful disciple of Jesus can attest, our fallen nature bombards us every day with unholy thoughts and feelings and, as brave soldiers of the cross, we must steadfastly resist them, we must keep them under control.

Man of Romans Seven
Here is how Paul explains the origin and essence of our internal warfare:

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is pre-sent with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:14–25)

Clear as mud, right? Leave it to Paul. Actually, though, his description makes perfect sense if you understand the difference between the mind of the new man and the mind of sinful flesh. Our fallen flesh has, as it were, a mind and voice of its own. “Human nature is ever struggling for expression, ready for contest ...” (MB 15) It continually tempts us with unholy thoughts and feelings. But it cannot commit a sin. “The words ‘flesh’ or ‘fleshly’ or ‘carnal lusts’ embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God.” (AH 127)

First of all, to understand this difficult passage, we need to remember that the origin of the thing that Paul, and the rest of us, hates is “the sin that dwelleth in me... that is, in my flesh.” The “sin that dwelleth” in us is a reference to the unholy thoughts and feelings produced by our fallen flesh. The one thing sinful flesh can “do” that we find so detestable is tempt us to be unlike Jesus. But the one thing it cannot “do”, as already mentioned, is commit a sin.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Galatians 5:17)

God implants within us, the moment we are born again, the mind of the new man. Between the mind of the new man and the mind of sinful flesh we have, as it were, two minds. The warfare between these two minds is the source of our inner turmoil. Or, as one man put it, “The nature of our warfare is the warfare of our nature.” In Romans Seven, however, Paul uses only one personal pronoun, “I”, to represent both minds, which makes things somewhat confusing.

In order to clear up the confusion we must determine which “I” refers to the mind of the new man and which “I” refers to the mind of fallen flesh. The context, as usual, makes it obvious. For example: “For that which I [sinful flesh] do, I [new man] allow not: for what I [new man] would, that do I [sinful flesh] not; but what I [new man] hate, that do I [sinful flesh].” (Romans 7:15) Let’s paraphrase this verse by replacing each “I” with the appropriate name:

Our sinful flesh wants us to do things our new man will not allow us to do. On the other hand, our new man wants us to do things our sinful flesh does not want us to do. In fact, the things our new man hates with a passion are the very things our sinful flesh wants us to do.

Did that help? I hope so! It is also very helpful to note that Paul twice repeats the phrase, “It is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” See verses 17 and 20. Some people accuse Paul of blame shifting, that is, blaming his sinful behavior on his fallen flesh. But this clearly is not the case. Paul is the original zealot. He would never excuse sinful behavior. On the contrary, this phrase pinpoints the origin and source of the unholy thoughts and feelings that come to mind.

In Romans chapter six Paul clearly says, “Our old man is crucified . . . he that is dead is freed from sin”. In chapter seven, therefore, he feels compelled to address the following obvious but unspoken questions: “If our old man is truly dead, and if we are truly free from sin why, then, are we being harassed with unholy thoughts and feelings? Are we still guilty of producing them? Or, is something else doing it?” The answer is, “It is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.” In other words, we must not blame ourselves for their presence, we must not assume we are guilty of producing them. Sinful flesh is the one guilty of doing it, which is why Paul uses the word “do” to answer our unspoken questions.

Even though we have been born again, “evil is present” within us. We live, as it were, in “captivity”. And, sorry to say, we will not be delivered “from the body of this death” until Jesus returns and rewards us with a sinless body and nature. Ro-mans 7:21-24. So, in the meantime, we must not allow ourselves to cherish or act out the unholy thoughts and feelings that regularly torment us. Like Paul, we must keep our eyes on Jesus and rigorously resolve, “I allow not”, which is another way of saying “Get thee behind me, Satan”. Not that sinful flesh and Satan are one and the same, because clearly they are not; however, they have the same goal – to tempt us to sin, to be unlike Jesus.

Paul was in such constant dread, lest his evil propensities should get the better of him, that he was constantly battling, with firm resistance, unruly appetites and passions. If the great apostle felt like trembling in view of his weakness, who has a right to feel self-confident and boast-ful? The moment we begin to feel self-sufficient and confident then we are in danger of a disgraceful failure. (TDG 277)

The Man Jesus
Paul goes on to explain how even Jesus had to resist the unholy clamorings of sinful flesh nature. It should comfort us to know that Jesus can identify with our circumstances. Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned the sin in His flesh by resisting the temptations it generated and communicated.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1–4)

The example and experience of Jesus proves we are neither guilty of, nor respon-sible for, the unholy thoughts and feelings our sinful flesh produces. Nevertheless, like Jesus, we are responsible to resist them, to rein them in. “The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not over-come. Christ came to make us ‘partakers of the divine nature,’ and His life de-clares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin.” (MH 180)

The obedience of Christ to His Father was the same obedience that is required of man. Man cannot overcome Satan’s temptations without di-vine power to combine with his instrumentality. So with Jesus Christ; He could lay hold of divine power. He came not to our world to give the obedience of a lesser God to a greater, but as a man to obey God’s Holy Law, and in this way He is our example. The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do, through faith in God’s power to help in every emergency. Man is, through faith, to be a partaker in the divine nature, and to overcome eve-ry temptation wherewith he is beset. (OHC 48)

PS - The post above is extracted from an online book. I cannot figure out how to cut and paste documents and preserve the original format. Here's the link to the book.

I cannot believe he didn't correct you on this statement and instead went off on some quote from a book no one has heard about, but to each his own I guess on this website. I wouldn't expect him to support me even if we are saying the same thing. And by the way, I give sermons at my church once a month, and to several other churches when asked, but I am not an ordained pastor and neither is he.

Mr Saptenno, if you look at the words brother Mountain Man said, he said people do not sin since the day of being a 'newborn', then he said "People live without sinning only while they are abiding in Jesus" or since RE-birth in Christ. Paul was born again and stayed in Christ from that day till his death.

So he was not siding with you on this statement unless you think we are born again from birth now?

Why did you not correct him on this M&M?

I don't know if Paul lived without sinning from day he experienced rebirth. It is certainly possible to do so. The Bible and the SOP are clear about it. Most people, however, fail to live without sinning from the day they experience rebirth. I, for one, have sinned since the day I experienced rebirth. Thank God for the promise in 1 John 2:1-2.