GC - - what do you inherit from your father? 23 chromosomes in a protein cap. Nothing more. No cytoplasm, no nucleus, no mitochrondria, no other cell organelles. These all come from the mother. So if you inherit anything from your father, it is in the genes. Sin is inherited and cultivated per EGW. You want to only see the cultivated side. But is both, genetic and social.

You ask, "Can one do something to change his or her genes?". There is nothing WE can do. It is all the work of God. EGW:"The Scriptures teach us to seek for the sanctification to God of body, soul, and spirit. In this work we are to be laborers together with God. Much may be done to restore the moral image of God in man, to improve the physical, mental, and moral capabilities. Great changes can be made in the physical system by obeying the laws of God and bringing into the body nothing that defiles. And while we cannot claim perfection of the flesh, we may have Christian perfection of the soul."

Are we to obtain perfect genomes in this life? Not hardly. "When human beings receive holy flesh, they will not remain on the earth, but will be taken to heaven. While sin is forgiven in this life, its results are not now wholly removed. It is at His coming that Christ is to "change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Philippians 3:21). . . . {2SM 33.3}".

Note, that there are genome, and the epigenome. Much of the genome has been destroyed. I'm not speaking off the top of my head, I have the science to support this. There is nothing we as individuals can do to restore the missing information. There is also the epigenome. This is a control mechanism which turns on and off genes and regulates their transcription. Much can be done in this area. Changes can occur in the epigenome which can be inherited to the next generation. The underlying DNA has not changed, but the expression of that DNA has changed. The 10 commandments state, that the iniquity of the father are visited unto the children even to the 3rd and 4th generation, of those that hate God, see Exodus 20:5. This is no arbitrary execution of justice. No legal transfer of guilt. It is real and literal. EGW says, "By inheritance and example the sons become partakers of the father's sin. {PP 306.3} Again, inheritance from a father is only by 23 chromosomes, period. It is in the DNA. I see no other way.

Again, you have not read the quotes, or did not understand them. EGW:"By inheritance and example the sons become partakers of the father's sin." Inheritance AND example. Or this: "Whatever may be our inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrong, we can overcome through the power that He is ready to impart. . . . {CH 440.1}" Again - inherited OR cultivated tendences to wrong.

EGW says: "If those who speak so freely of perfection in the flesh, could see things in the true light, they would recoil with horror from their presumptuous ideas." I can say, AMEN. The science is there, it is clear. Our genomes have been taken over. At least 50% of our DNA is not original, and high estimates put it a 90%, or more! We are degenerating.

As for Christ:
MR No. 1201 - Christ's Mission to Earth (excerpts)
It was sin that separated man from his God, and it is sin that maintains this separation. {16MR 115.2}

What a sight was this for heaven to look upon. Christ, who knew not the least moral taint or defilement of sin, took our nature in its deteriorated condition. {16MR 115.3}
There was not a drop of bitter woe which He did not taste, not a part of the curse which He did not endure, that He might bring many sons and daughters to God. {16MR 116.1}

By taking upon Himself man's nature in its fallen condition, Christ did not in the least participate in its sin. He was subject to the infirmities and weaknesses of the flesh with which humanity is encompassed, "that it might be fulfilled that was spoken by the prophet Esaias, Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses." He was touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and was in all points tempted like as we are. And yet He was without a spot. {16MR 116.3}

The enmity referred to in the prophecy in Eden was not to be confined merely to Satan and the Prince of life. It was to be universal. {16MR 117.3}

This last sentence refers to Genesis 3:15, which we usually interpret as a messianic prophesy. But it is more that that. And why the seed of the "woman" and not the man? There is a good answer for this, and it is not just because "woman" represents the church. This verse has many meanings.

With such a mix of both truth and error, I hardly know where to begin.

How about with this part...

If the father never so much as looked upon the mother during the entire pregnancy, and if the mother was content by this, I suppose you have a case. But fathers have much influence upon mothers during their pregnancies. His mood affects hers, in turn affecting the baby. When she becomes irritated, it causes changes in her hormones and in her bloodstream, changes which affect the developing fetus, causing him or her to experience the same moods.

Furthermore, science has demonstrated resoundingly that babies know their father's voice at birth. Why is this? It can only be because they have heard it during the pregnancy. What did that voice say? Was it perfectly saintly throughout the pregnancy? or were there some cross words to influence the new little life?

You be the judge.

Of course, if those "cross words" were "in the DNA," we have all been programmed to sin like robots and don't stand a chance of escaping our predestinations. Thankfully, I believe the DNA is weakened, but does not itself transmit "sin." Again, if it did, then Jesus was a sinner--as the quotes you brought forward demonstrate eloquently.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

There is another option that you are forgetting here APL.

There is an entry in the book of record in heaven for each one of us. When you are born you are not perfect because of being born from fallen parents. It is true that the results of sin are inherited, but each of our record is clean individually when we are born.

“Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and forth generation of them that hate Me.” Children are not punished for parents’ guilt, except as they participate in their sins. It is usually the case, however, that by inheritance and example the sons become partakers of the father’s sin. Wrong tendencies, perverted appetites, and debased morals, as well as physical disease and degeneracy, are transmitted as a legacy from father to son, to the third and fourth generation." {EP 211.5}

We are born with the fallen nature of our fathers before us, but we are not held accountable for sins we have not committed ourselves. We are only held accountable for the sins of our fathers if we continue down the same path as our fathers. This is universally instilled in us by our fathers disposition to sin. We are born in need of the knowledge that saves, we are not born with that knowledge. This is part of the curse, but we are only left here if we do not listen to Christ and refuse to repent.

Have you heard of the covering of light and the Tree of life? If the words of God should be taken literally, (Amen) then there is a literal cloak of righteous light called the outer garment, and a tree that perpetuates life that Adam forfeited for him and us by sinning and being kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

This is the key hat you are missing APL.

To be covered in the protective garment of light is dwelling in the perfect love of God. "After the transgression of Adam and Eve they were naked, for the garment of light and security had departed from them." {LDE 249.2} (I think it interesting that Jesus laid asside His "outer garment" when He washed the disciples feet in the upper room before dying the second death for us in Gethsemane)

Access to the tree of Life is also essential to live forever in perfection. When Adam sinned, he lost the right to access this tree forever for him and his posterity.

"The tree of life had the power of perpetuating life. Adam would have continued to enjoy free access to this tree and have lived forever, but when he sinned he was cut off from the tree of life and became subject to death. Immortality had been forfeited by transgression. {HF 329.1}

"Immortality, promised to man on condition of obedience, had been forfeited by transgression. Adam could not transmit to his posterity that which he did not possess; and there could have been no hope for the fallen race had not God, by the sacrifice of His Son, brought immortality within their reach. While “death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned,” Christ “hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.” Romans 5:12; 2 Timothy 1:10. And only through Christ can immortality be obtained. Said Jesus: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life.” John 3:36. Every man may come into possession of this priceless blessing if he will comply with the conditions. All “who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality,” will receive “eternal life.” Romans 2:7. {DD 14.3}
The only one who promised Adam life in disobedience was the great deceiver. And the declaration of the serpent to Eve in Eden—“Ye shall not surely die”—was the first sermon ever preached upon the immortality of the soul. Yet this declaration, resting solely upon the authority of Satan, is echoed from the pulpits of Christendom and is received by the majority of mankind as readily as it was received by our first parents. The divine sentence, “The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20), is made to mean: The soul that sinneth, it shall not die, but live eternally. We cannot but wonder at the strange infatuation which renders men so credulous concerning the words of Satan and so unbelieving in regard to the words of God. {DD 14.4}
Had man after his fall been allowed free access to the tree of life, he would have lived forever, and thus sin would have been immortalized. But cherubim and a flaming sword kept “the way of the tree of life” (Genesis 3:24), and not one of the family of Adam has been permitted to pass that barrier and partake of the life-giving fruit. Therefore there is not an immortal sinner. {DD 15.1}

Where in here do you see mentioned "Genome" or "Chromosome"?

Revelation 3:18 I counsel you to buy from me...white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen...

Obviously, you didn't read my post, nor the hundreds of posts I have made on that topic over the years here. Please read my post carefully to see what I actually said.

If sin is genetic, how did Adam's sin get passed on to your dog? Or to your trees? Does the "whole creation" have Adam's genes?

I think you need to take a break from the gene glasses.

We seem to disagree on the fundamental nature sin plays in fallen humanity. Without sin, you will be very different. You will be a new creature. You will be you, but a whole new you. And the main difference won't be physical.

I've heard others say this. But what about "all have sinned" - does this apply to infants? If not, does it imply infants do not sin? Since sinning includes thoughts, feelings, desires, motives (more than words and works) how is it possible infants do not sin? Are their thoughts, feelings, desires, motives naturally neutral or sinless or pure and holy?


This insights makes it clear it is possible to live eternally in spite of sinning. However, it is highly unlikely sinners would live eternally. Most likely they would lop off their head at some point. There is also the ethical issue concerning God perpetuating life in people without hope (eternal life depends on God perpetuating life - not solely on eating from the tree of life).

APL, I see you are busy responding to other posts on this thread. When you have the time please address my last two posts to you. Thank you.

PS - I am enjoying reading your posts. I appreciate your tactfulness, kindness, and patience.

Do you know of anyone who has experienced the kind of rebirth, conversion you described above (full of agape love, free of selfishness)? Elsewhere you've argued people are born again with inbred sin, inward corruption, inherited sinful tendencies which stain everything they cherish, think, say, and do with sin and selfishness while they are abiding in Jesus. How are these sordid elements of humanity passed on to infants?

If our record were at any time clean, such as when we are born, it would make void the Word of God which says "ALL have sinned," and the Word which says "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Psalm 14:2-3)

If newborn babies are "children of men," the Bible says they have "become filthy," and that they do not do good. If they were keeping all of the Law, this could not be said of them. So it is obvious that they have sinned.

I may get into a whole new can of worms here, but I think it is worthy of consideration anyhow...

The sin issue demonstrates why the Bible's definition of a person constitutes one who has been born. The developing fetus is not counted as a "soul." Life, Biblically speaking, begins with the first breath. This doesn't take place till after one is born.

Defining any other way would make it especially difficult to understand the transmission of sin. The zygote, the blastocyst, which are just one or more cells and which have as yet no mind nor choice--how could these forms of life commit "sin?" How could it transgress the law of God?

God does not say that every fetus is a sinner. He says that every child is. A person is not begotten a child before he or she is born. Yet at some point along the way, sin becomes a part of that fetus, transmitted in by the sins of the parents.

If the DNA itself contained sin, then we would be trying to stamp it out by changing our DNA. Are we all to be genetic engineers by trade? If God is doing the "engineering," how is it that past sins, already confessed and forsaken, still affect our present health and condition?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.